Regimental police

[FROGSMILE]

It makes sense then that the two Royal Artillery RMPs would be wearing blue instead of red or scarlet. That clears up an inconsistency for me when I thought they were Fusiliers.

As well as the colour of their upper garments you can invariably spot RA uniforms from their habit of having the buttons closer together, which stemmed from the 9 buttons worn for many years on their tunics. Even if they had been fusiliers in blue undress uniforms, the buttons would have been further apart.

[bill24chev]

Is there a third non Highlander in the second row?

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Hi,

The regimental police of the DLI seem to have been under seperate battalion orders for dress, compare this shot of 20/DLI RP's to that of 18/DLI in the other post. 20/DLI Ptes wear the armband on the left wrist whilst the NCO's and men of 18/DLI wear it on the right wrist.

In the second photo the battalion is unknown but the man wears Brass letters RMP on a probably green background.

regards

John

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Here we have the Provost Staff of 28/NF indicated by the white 19 patch of the 19th Reserve Brigade, again NCO's wear the armband on the right and the privates on the left.

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Here is a photo of 1/5th KOSB pre war the Provost Sgt wears a GMP armband as does the Royal scots Fusilier Sgt.

[gordon92]

Is there a third non Highlander in the second row?

You are right. There is a third man in the second row that I missed.

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Here are three policemen of the 44th Battalion CEF wearing straight MP armbands.

[FROGSMILE]

You are right. There is a third man in the second row that I missed.

The third man is also a gunner. Their smaller number of R(M)Ps relates to the manning establishment of a battery.

[FROGSMILE]

Here is a photo of 1/5th KOSB pre war the Provost Sgt wears a GMP armband as does the Royal scots Fusilier Sgt.

That is typical of a Territorial summer camp when a number of units would sometimes be brigaded under canvas. For such a large tented camp, with its canteens and messes, the RPs of several units would be combined as Garrison Military Police (GMP) to oversee the camp jointly.

[robins2]

note they are wearing arm bands some on left arm some on right arm??

Regards

Bob R.

[robins2]

[FROGSMILE]

note they are wearing arm bands some on left arm some on right arm??

Regards

Bob R.

Yes, in that case the Military Police Sergeant (MPS) and Military Police Corporal (MPC) both have the band on their right wrists and the privates on their left wrist. There were many variations.

[gordon92]

Recently ran across this photo. I would say 2nd Bn Black Watch in India circa 1905-1910. The man sitting wearing the whites exhibits a 'R.P.' armband. The Cpl standing on the right has a 'S.P.' armband. The LCpl in the center has an armband that I cannot decipher (possibly a G?) while the Pte in the shorts has no armband.

What would 'S.P.' stand for?

[robins2]

another version East Surrey Regt. 4th Vol. Bn.

Regards

Bob R.

[FROGSMILE]

Recently ran across this photo. I would say 2nd Bn Black Watch in India circa 1905-1910. The man sitting wearing the whites exhibits a 'R.P.' armband. The Cpl standing on the right has a 'S.P.' armband. The LCpl in the center has an armband that I cannot decipher (possibly a G?) while the Pte in the shorts has no armband.

What would 'S.P.' stand for?

The most common meaning of G in this context was Garrison, as mentioned earlier in the thread. SP perhaps Station Provost or Station Police. If he were a sergeant I suppose it could be Sergeant Provost (although the reverse was the norm), but he apears to be a corporal.

[FROGSMILE]

This excellent photo shows Garrison Police (GP) outside a guardroom. These police were formed by each unit providing one or two men to keep order and supervise miscreants who would be held in cells for short periods of punishment. They might also hold temporarily natives held as prisoners until their fate is decided. In front of the group are shackles and cannon balls. The latter can also be seen lined up in front of the guardroom and were often used as weights that prisoners must carry or exercise with as part of a punishment regime.

The group come from a variety of regiments. At front left is a Lancer (5th, 9th or 12th) and there are three infantrymen with white collar and cuffs, possibly from the West Riding Regiment mentioned in other photos here. One man has the 9 button tunic and grenade collar badges of the Royal Artillery and the other three men are all wearing a dark blue serge patrol jacket with chest pockets. Two of these latter have strapped overalls (secured under their boots instep) and are thus from a mounted unit, possibly Army Service Corps. Policemen generally carry a stout stick for use as a weapon and the sergeant seated at centre has an African knobkerry with its distinctive round end. The helmets on each flank are of the foreign service pattern and one is evidently khaki in shade and that other white.

The shackles are for the securing of prisoners undergoing special restriction and the cannon balls were used for a shuttle-run punishment known as 'shot drill'.

[gordon92]

This excellent photo shows Garrison Police (GP) outside a guardroom. These police were formed by each unit providing one or two men to keep order and supervise miscreants who would be held in cells for short periods of punishment. They might also hold temporarily natives held as prisoners until their fate is decided. In front of the group are shackles and cannon balls. The latter can also be seen lined up in front of the guardroom and were often used as weights that prisoners must carry or exercise with as part of a punishment regime.

The group come from a variety of regiments. At front left is a Lancer (5th, 9th or 12th) and there are three infantrymen with white collar and cuffs, possibly from the West Riding Regiment mentioned in other photos here. One man has the 9 button tunic and grenade collar badges of the Royal Artillery and the other three men are all wearing a dark blue serge patrol jacket with chest pockets. Two of these latter have strapped overalls (secured under their boots instep) and are thus from a mounted unit, possible Army Service Corps. Policemen generally carry a stout stick for use as a weapon and the sergeant seated at centre has an African knobkerry with its distinctive round end. The helmets on each flank are of the foreign service pattern and one is evidently khaki in shade and that other white.

Excellent photo! With the various units represented here, one would imagine the venue to be one of the major cantonments in India. With the Ellwood pattern helmets on display, this would suggest a date prior to about 1904 or 1905.

Here is another RP photo for the 2nd Black Watch at Peshawar dated 1907. The interesting aspect of this photo is the presence of the command structure that I think you mentioned earlier in this thread, FROGSMILE. The Adjutant who had overall command authority of the RP, the Sergeant Major who had day-to-day command responsibility, and the Provost Sergeant. In this battalion's system, Privates are wearing the armband on the left while NCOs wear it on the right.

[FROGSMILE]

Excellent photo! With the various units represented here, one would imagine the venue to be one of the major cantonments in India. With the Ellwood pattern helmets on display, this would suggest a date prior to about 1904 or 1905.

Here is another RP photo for the 2nd Black Watch at Peshawar dated 1907. The interesting aspect of this photo is the presence of the command structure that I think you mentioned earlier in this thread, FROGSMILE. The Adjutant who had overall command authority of the RP, the Sergeant Major who had day-to-day command responsibility, and the Provost Sergeant. In this battalion's system, Privates are wearing the armband on the left while NCOs wear it on the right.

A paricularly fine photo, showing the command structure as it does and interesting to see that this is one of the regiments that started using the RP (rather than RMP) designation early on. Notice also the superior staves/parade canes of the provost sergeant and provost corporal, a tradition that is still carried on in many regiments today.

The men are wearing unlined frocks (Scottish version of India pattern) and notice that as per usual the sergeant's has been piped in white. This was common in India where the frocks were used for 'best' in lieu of full dress tunics.

Most regiments at that time had started to have battalion photos taken every 2 or 3 years and these were invariably broken down by company, with one or two showing 'battalion staff' and usually (like this) the RP detachment.

[gordon92]

Several Royal Scots in blue patrols, tartan trousers, and police armbands.

Three characters are on the armbands: GP?. What might the third letter be?

[FROGSMILE]

Several Royal Scots in blue patrols, tartan trousers, and police armbands.

Three characters are on the armbands: GP?. What might the third letter be?

Looking at the shape of the letter on the seated LCpl I can only think that it is probably an 'O' for Orderly. I cannot think what else it might be if not that.

The ostentatious display of a whistle chain was often a feature of MP dress (as seen here) and seemed to mimic the use of such whistles by civil policemen. It was not generally seen on RPs though.

[gordon92]

Looking at the shape of the letter on the seated LCpl I can only think that it is probably an 'O' for Orderly. I cannot think what else it might be if not that.

The ostentatious display of a whistle chain was often a feature of MP dress (as seen here) and seemed to mimic the use of such whistles by civil policemen. It was not generally seen on RPs though.

Informative. Thank you.

[FROGSMILE]

Informative. Thank you.

Thinking about it again, another possibilitry is that it is a C and not an O. In which case it would be Garrison Police Corporal (assuming he is the senior man) and the other men would just have GP for Garrison Police. This would fit with the common practice of having a third letter for the Sergeant ( S ) and Corporal ( C ), as seen in several of the images above. This would definitely be more likely than 'Orderly' in this context. As all four are LCpls (generically referred to as 'Corporal') it might be that thay all have GPC, as in Garrison Police Corporals, 'plural'.

[Chief_Chum]

I have several photographs of Suffolk Regimental Policemen through the ages but this one is causing some head-scratching.

It is part of a photograph showing a Recruiter with two young recruits at the Depot Gate between the wars but I would love to know what this Corporal has on his cuff-band.

Have any of you come acrross Great War brassards with similar markings? Any ideas?

[robins2]

Military Police Armband

An example of the type of armband, or brassard, worn by military police in the First World War. The initials MP are sewn to a piece of white cotton canvas lined in red. It was worn on the right arm above the elbow. Later Canadian brassards typically included a Canadian maple leaf collar badge between the letters. Military police served under the authority of the provost marshal, with the first Canadian units sent overseas, but the Canadian Military Police Corps was not officially established until September 1917 to ensure discipline and enforce punishments.

Service Dress Armband

(compliments Cdn War Museum)

[Dave1418]

Interesting to note but I have photographs of several RP's and MFP's and the armband is worn in different places on each, some just above the cuff and others on the arm above the elbow. There was a discussion item regarding the ''red cap'' cover. Again the photos I have show the later date (economy tunic and trench cap being worn) do a cap cover but the earlier one do not. Likewise MFP's were usually issued with the 03 pattern leather belt, pistol holder(long or short) ammunition pouch and cross strap. The pistol being either the long or short barrelled variety and not always a Webley.

Hope this doesn't add too much to the general confusion on the topic