Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Can anybody tell me what the two below are ? - The were photographed as part of a WW1 + 2 group of miniatures which includes at least one WW1 service medal which I know not to be correct. thanks - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brimacombe Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Hi Tom Its the Order of St John and the British Empire Medal..... Regards Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 St Johns (serving brother??) and BEM maybe?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 The second could either be the British Empire Medal or the Empire Galantry Medal, either one with that ribbon is civil award. I'd lean more towards the British Empire Medal as the hanger looks more wreath like. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 11 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Hi Tom Its the Order of St John and the British Empire Medal..... Regards Shawn Shawn - (Rich - Batti..) Thanks for that. Any advice as to verifying entitlement to these ? Also, how would they be worn in a group including WW1 & 2 service medals ? thanks - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 BEM will be in the London gazette, not sure of the serving brother in the SJ of J medal officers are in the LG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Hello Tom In the following order I believe Order of St. John British Empire Medal Campaign medals Medals for valuable service Jubilee, Coronation and Durbar Medals Efficiency, Good conduct and Long Service Medals are there any other gallantry medals? If you let me know what medals you have I will put them in order for you Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 The following is the order in which campaign stars and medals awarded for service in world war 1 and 2 are worn: 1914 with dated "Mons" clasp "15th AUGUST - 22nd NOVEMBER 1914" 1914 Star 1914/15 Star British War Medal Mercantile Marine War Medal Victory Medal Territorial Force War Medal 1939/45 Star Atlantic Star Aircrew Europe Star Africa Star Pacific Star Burma Star Italy Star France and Garmany Star Defence Medal Canadian/Newfoundland Volunteer Service Medal 1939/45 War Medal 1939/45 Africa Service Medal of the Union of South Africa India Service Medal New Zealand War Service Medal Southern Rhodesia Service Medal Australian Service Medal Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 12 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2012 The photo below shows all the medals claimed to be to this man > Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Easy enough to research I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Hello again Is that the Special constabulary medal? if so it would go on the far right of the group as we look at it in the photo. that is providing the blue and white ribbon is that of the Police long service and good conduct medal. The rest of the group is as it should be. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Would you be willing to share the name and number of the chap who claimed these were his medals? I can try and help. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 12 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Easy enough to research I would have thought. Already partly done, and that part known not to be the correct entitlement. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 12 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2012 ... Is that the Special constabulary medal? if so it would go on the far right of the group as we look at it in the photo. that is providing the blue and white ribbon is that of the Police long service and good conduct medal. ... Rich - The police medals appear to be correct. The man was commissioned from the ranks during WW1. His overseas service was all post-commission. Afraid I cant put the name out there. Thanks for the help - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 ok Tom no prob, if you want more help with medals in the future let me know. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 13 February , 2012 Share Posted 13 February , 2012 OK - as far as I can see it there are two separate groups here. The Order of St John (where the insignia is that of a pre-1947 'Serving Brother') and British Empire Medal (Civil Division) - not at all implausible - with a Police Long Service and Good Conduct Medal at the end. Many police officers support the St John (viz Commissioners with higher degrees of the Order) and the Police LSGC was only institued in 1950-51. Unlikely that one man would have a St John, a Police Long Service AND a George VI Special Constabulary Long Service - that is a lot of a spare time hoovered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 13 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2012 ... the Police LSGC was only institued in 1950-51. ... Phil - for 22 years service ? This man would have been 62 years old in 1950. The Defence Medal was claimed to be for Home Guards service, so the anticipated release of those records to TNA may be the way of unravalling this (when they eventually appear). I'm trying to get a clearer picture of his claimed police service from another source, but currently have no information of consequence. Its mainly the man's WW1 service which interests me, and as I have said I already know that the claimed WW1 medals are "wrong". (The non-WW1 items are simply outside my area of interest as far as research is concerned). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 14 February , 2012 Share Posted 14 February , 2012 Yes, 22 years service (reduced to 20 in 2010) - but all still serving in 1951 who had already qualifed were awarded it. Perhaps the miniature 1914 Star and Clasp is the red herring here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 14 February , 2012 Share Posted 14 February , 2012 I am sure that in the order of presedence, all St.John medals (quasi private organisation with Royal patronage) rank last following decorations and war medals and some, eg., St John life saving medal are worn on the right breast. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 14 February , 2012 Share Posted 14 February , 2012 Medals, yes - you are correct. But the badge in this case is a piece of the insignia of the Order of St John - so it is in the right place. And it is the pre-1949 pattern not pre-1947 as I said in an earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 14 February , 2012 Share Posted 14 February , 2012 Victoria Cross George Cross British Orders of Knighthood, Etc Order of the Garter Order of the Thistle Order of St Patrick Order of the Bath Order of Merit Order of the Star of India Order of St Michael and St George Order of the Indian Empire Order of the Crown of India Royal Victorian Order (Classes I, II and III) Order of the British Empire (Classes I, II and III) Order of the Companions of Honour Companion of the Distinguished Service Order Royal Victorian Order (Class IV) Order of the British Empire (Class IV) Imperial Service Order Royal Victorian Order (Class V) Order of the British Empire (Class V) Baronet's Badge Knight Bachelor's Badge Indian Order of Merit (Military) Decorations Conspicuous Gallantry Cross Royal Red Cross (Class I) Distinguished Service Cross Military Cross Distinguished Flying Cross Air Force Cross Royal Red Cross (Class II) Order of British India Kaisar-i-Hind Medal Order of St John Medals for Gallantry and Distinguished Conduct Union of South Africa Queen's Medal for Bravery (Gold) Distinguished Conduct Medal Conspicuous Gallantry Medal Conspicuous Gallantry Medal (Flying) George Medal Queen's Police Medal, for Gallantry Queen's Fire Service Medal, for Gallantry Royal West African Frontier Force Distinguished Conduct Medal King's African Rifles Distinguished Conduct Medal Indian Distinguished Service Medal Union of South Africa Queen's Medal for Bravery (Silver) Distinguished Service Medal Military Medal Distinguished Flying Medal Air Force Medal Constabulary Medal (Ireland) Medal for Saving Life at Sea (Sea Gallantry Medal) Indian Order of Merit (Civil)v</EM> Indian Police Medal for Gallantry Ceylon Police Medal for Gallantry Sierra Leone Police Medal for Gallantry Sierra Leone Fire Brigades Medal for Gallantry Colonial Police Medal for Gallantry Queen's Gallantry Medal Royal Victorian Medal (Gold, Silver and Bronze) British Empire Medalvi</EM> Canada Medal Queen's Police Medal, for Distinguished Service Queen's Fire Service Medal, for Distinguished Service Queen's Volunteer Reserves Medal Queen's Medal for Chiefs Campaign Medals and Stars (Including authorised United Nations, European Community/Union and North Atlantic Treaty Organisation medals (in order of date of campaign for which awarded). Polar Medals (in order of date) Imperial Service Medal Police Medals for Valuable Service Indian Police Medal for Meritorious Service Ceylon Police Medal for Merit Sierra Leone Police Medal for Meritorious Service Sierra Leone Fire Brigades Medal for Meritorious Service Colonial Police Medal for Meritorious Service Badge of Honour Jubilee, Coronation and Durbar Medals Queen Victoria's Jubilee Medal, 1887 (Gold, Silver and Bronze) Queen Victoria's Police Jubilee Medal, 1887 Queen Victoria's Jubilee Medal, 1897 (Gold, Silver and Bronze) Queen Victoria's Police Jubilee Medal, 1897 Queen Victoria's Commemoration Medal, 1900 (Ireland) King Edward VII's Coronation Medal, 1902 King Edward VII's Police Coronation Medal, 1902 King Edward VII's Durbar Medal, 1903 (Gold, Silver and Bronze) King Edward VII's Police Medal, 1903 (Scotland) King's Visit Commemoration Medal, 1903 (Ireland) King George V's Coronation Medal, 1911 King George V's Police Coronation Medal, 1911 King's Visit Commemoration Medal, 1911 (Ireland) King George V's Durbar Medal, 1911 (Gold, Silver and Bronze) King George V's Silver Jubilee Medal, 1935 King George VI's Coronation Medal, 1937 Queen Elizabeth II's Coronation Medal, 1953 Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee Medal, 1977 Queen Elizabeth II's Golden Jubilee Medal, 2002 King George V's Long and Faithful Service Medal King George VI's Long and Faithful Service Medal Queen Elizabeth II's Long and Faithful Service Medal Efficiency and Long Service Decorations and Medals Meritorious Service Medal Accumulated Campaign Service Medal Medal for Long Service and Good Conduct (Military) Naval Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Medal for Meritorious Service (Royal Navy 1918-1928) Indian Long Service and Good Conduct Medalix</EM> Indian Meritorious Service Medalix</EM> Royal Marines Meritorious Service Medal (1849-1947) Royal Air Force Meritorious Service Medal (1918-1928) Royal Air Force Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Medal for Long Service and Good Conduct (Ulster Defence Regiment) Indian Long Service and Good Conduct Medalx</EM> Royal West African Frontier Force Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Royal Sierra Leone Military Forces Long Service and Good Conduct Medal King's African Rifles Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Indian Meritorious Service Medalx</EM> Police Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Fire Brigade Long Service and Good Conduct Medal African Police Medal for Meritorious Service Royal Canadian Mounted Police Long Service Medal Ceylon Police Long Service Medal Ceylon Fire Services Long Service Medal Sierra Leone Police Long Service Medal Colonial Police Long Service Medal Sierra Leone Fire Brigades Long Service Medal Mauritius Police Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Mauritius Fire Services Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Mauritius Prisons Service Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Colonial Fire Brigades Long Service Medal Colonial Prison Service Medal Hong Kong Disciplined Services Medal Army Emergency Reserve Decoration Volunteer Officers' Decoration Volunteer Long Service Medal Volunteer Officers' Decoration (for India and the Colonies) Volunteer Long Service Medal (for India and the Colonies) Colonial Auxiliary Forces Officers' Decoration Colonial Auxiliary Forces Long Service Medal Medal for Good Shooting (Naval) Militia Long Service Medal Imperial Yeomanry Long Service Medal Territorial Decoration Ceylon Armed Services Long Service Medal Efficiency Decoration Territorial Efficiency Medal Efficiency Medal Special Reserve Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Decoration for Officers of the Royal Naval Reserve Decoration for Officers of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Royal Naval Reserve Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Royal Naval Auxiliary Sick Berth Reserve Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Royal Fleet Reserve Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Royal Naval Wireless Auxiliary Reserve Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Royal Naval Auxiliary Service Medal Air Efficiency Award Volunteer Reserves Service Medal Ulster Defence Regiment Medal Northern Ireland Home Service Medal Queen's Medal (for Champion Shots of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines) Queen's Medal (for Champion Shots of the New Zealand Naval Forces) Queen's Medal (for Champion Shots in the Military Forces) Queen's Medal (for Champion Shots of the Air Forces) Cadet Forces Medal Coastguard Auxiliary Service Long Service Medalxi</EM> Special Constabulary Long Service Medal Canadian Forces Decoration Royal Observer Corps Medal Civil Defence Long Service Medal Ambulance Service (Emergency Duties) Long Service and Good Conduct Medal Royal Fleet Auxiliary Service Medal Rhodesia Medal Royal Ulster Constabulary Service Medal Northern Ireland Prison Service Medal Union of South Africa Commemoration Medal Indian Independence Medal Pakistan Medal Ceylon Armed Services Inauguration Medal Ceylon Police Independence Medal (1948) Sierra Leone Independence Medal Jamaica Independence Medal Uganda Independence Medal Malawi Independence Medal Fiji Independence Medal Papua New Guinea Independence Medal Solomon Islands Independence Medal Service Medal of the Order of St. John Badge of the Order of the League of Mercy Voluntary Medical Service Medal Women's Royal Voluntary Service Medal South African Medal for War Services Colonial Special Constabulary Medal Honorary Membership of Commonwealth Orders Other Commonwealth Members' Orders, Decorations and Medals Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalredcross Posted 15 February , 2012 Share Posted 15 February , 2012 The Order of St. John, far from being quasi-private, is a British Order of Chivalry which has HM The Queen as its Sovereign Head and a Royal Prince as its Grand Prior. If you have not managed to establish the date of award, I can probably tell you. I have a number of Order rolls at home. NGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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