kmh2012 Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 HI Is someone here in the Forum which knows where 12th Squadrone Flaying Army Corps was in France ? Late August to beginning of Sept ( 1-3 Sept ) 1918. I am searching for some information of one member of the 12 quere which did not survive from a battle around September 3. I think they/ 12th Squardone was in battle of breaking the Drocourt Quént Line ore Arras Trench System. I know this solder grave is not known but his name is on: ARRAS FLYING SERVICES MEMORIAL Pas de Calais,France. Best regards: hmk2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Having a little difficulty undertanding your enquiry. However in August and September 1918 No 12 Squadron RAF was undertaking Corps Reconnaissance duties and some night bombing using RE8s and trialling the use of Bristol F2bs for artillery shoots and long range recce. Earlier in March and April they had been pressed into service for contact patrols and ground attack duties (for which the RE8 was unsuited). By "Flaying Army Corps" do you mean Flying Corps? The Royal Flying Corps ceased to exist on April 1 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Do you mean the Drocourt-Quéant Line? One extremity of the Hindenburg Line? This was overrun by the Canadian Corps on 2nd/3rd September 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmh2012 Posted 11 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Hi Thanks for your answer. I am talking about the: Drocourt-Quéant Line ,Arras Trench System and the Canadian Corps. But the solder which I trying to locate in this battle is: Hallgrimur Jonsson http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/photoview/1574935/45374 which did listed in the Canadian Crops, (came from Canada, immigrants to Canada ) but went later over in 1918 to the No 12 No 12 Squadron RAF. He is told to be wounded in battle and died Sept 3 1918, but his graves are not known. I am tarrying to find where he was late August 1918 to the beginning of Sept that same year. ( Like to know in what battle he did died/ went down). Then I do also appreciate all information ( if somone have) about this solder and the No 12 No 12 Squadron RAF. Specially form the beginning of 1918 to first day in Sept that same year. p.s: I hope what I am tray to say is not unclear. English is not my first langue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Lt H Jonsson MC was the observer in RE8 B7888 of No 12 Sqn RAF, flown by Lt Arthur William MacNamara DFC (from County Limerick, Ireland), when both airmen were killed in action on 3 September 1918. Ltn Hermann Frommherz of Jasta 27 was credited with a victory over an RE8 near Beugnâtre; it was the 18th of his eventual 32 victories. I hope this is useful. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john-g Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 His RFC/RAF Officers records should be in AIR76 try this record at The National Archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=8721569&queryType=1&resultcount=2 john-g www.66squadron.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmh2012 Posted 11 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Lt H Jonsson MC was the observer in RE8 B7888 of No 12 Sqn RAF, flown by Lt Arthur William MacNamara DFC (from County Limerick, Ireland), when both airmen were killed in action on 3 September 1918. Ltn Hermann Frommherz of Jasta 27 was credited with a victory over an RE8 near Beugnâtre; it was the 18th of his eventual 32 victories. I hope this is useful. Gareth Major -General thank you very much and deed. …this is information I don't have seen before.Information about : LtH jonsson MC/ Hermann Jonsson. And is going to be very valuable for my. But where can I locate the original recourses for this information? I did like to see that because I am working on some University product, and think I do have to have the closest recourses which I can find. best regards: hmk2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 hmk2012 The information came from several books: Airmen Died in the Great War by Chris Hobson, had the basic information about the men; The Sky Their Battlefield by Trevor Henshaw, indicated where they were shot down, and by whom; The Jasta War Chronology by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey & Frank Duiven, confirmed that Frommherz was the victor; and Above the Lines by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Russell Guest, had information on Frommherz. Best wishes Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john-g Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 He is not listed in The Military Cross to Flying Personnell of Great Britiain and the Empire 1914-19 Giblin & Franks, so the MC may have been awarded for service in the Army, rather than RFC? john-g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 No 12 squadron provided corps aviation support to IV Corps. On September 3rd 1918 IV Corps were engaged in the 2nd Battle of Baupame (a continuation of the Battle of Amiens) to the SE of Arras. It is therefore probably correct to say that MacNamara and Jonsson were killed in that battle rather than Drocourt-Quéant MacNamara's DFC was awarded for persistent photo recce in the face of enemy fighter attacks in August 1918 (during the first phases of the battle) so it is more that likely that they were on such a mission when they were shot down. One of no 12's speciaities was long range photo recce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmh2012 Posted 12 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Hi I like to thank all of us for this information . I am going to look at these books and the 2nd Battle of Baupame . This information is helpful; I have been searching and reading about battles which were going on around Sept 3 1918. And don't have bee able to locate for sure the 12 Squadron RAF in some battle. But then I have to read more…I think it is so much to read and study. But to clear the matter: H Jonsson did get his MC when he was in the 108 th battalion ore 67battalion Canadian army (Enlisted 1-2-16; Lieut. 108th Battn.; Transferred to 67th Battn) He was from spring 1917 to march 1918 in control of the railway at the front, very close to the fighting….in France/Belgium. His award he did got 24 Nov 1916 for: Force: Air Force Unit: Royal Air Force Division: 12th Sqdn Citation: Military Cross, London Gazette No. 29837 dated 24 November 1916, "For conspicuous gallantry in action. He commanded and handled two working parties with great courage and skill. He set a splendid example to his men throughout." Honours and Awards: Military Cross http://www.veterans..../detail/1574935 But I like to know a more about the role of observer in RAF and this photo recce ???? Was this photo racce some sort of searching and spying on the enemy? And also do someone know more about Jonsson´t partner: Lt Arthur William MacNamara DFC (from County Limerick, Ireland)? best regards hmk2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 The RAF squadron assigned to the Canadian Corps for corps reconnaissance from July 1918 to the end of the war was No 5 Squadron. They would have been flying the missions in support of the Drocourt-Quéant attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Although it does contain some errors" this is a useful introduction to photo recce http://www.militaryh...reconinwwi.aspx But I'd read some more serious material. eg The Eye in the Sky * For example the photo claimed to show an observer operating a camera actually shows the pilot of a BE2 operating the camera. Often it was the pilot who took the photos whilst the observer kept watch for approaching enemy aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 But I like to know a more about the role of observer in RAF and this photo recce ???? This book published in 1921 should give you a pretty good idea. Although written by an American it covers British and French practice as well http://www.onread.com/book/Aerial-observation-382696/ It can be downloaded free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmacnamara Posted 11 January , 2014 Share Posted 11 January , 2014 Hi My great grand uncle was called Lt Arthur William Macnamara from No 12 Sqn RAF. I saw his name mentioned on this forum and wondered if anybody would be able to advise me how I can find out more about him. I know he was awarded a DFC but don't know how I can find out more about why he was awarded it or how to find out more about his time during in the RAF. Any help would be appreciated Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 11 January , 2014 Share Posted 11 January , 2014 AnnThe citation for his Distinguished Flying Cross reads:Lieut. Arthur William MacNamara.His photographic reconnaissance during the last few months has been exceptionally good. Frequently, when on this duty, he has been attacked by hostile planes, but has invariably completed his work before returning. On one occasion, when 10,000 yards over the line, he was attacked by superior numbers. By skilful manoeuvring he drove them off and continued his photographic work, exposing 126 plates, despite the fact that his machine was badly shot about.Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fetubi Posted 12 January , 2014 Share Posted 12 January , 2014 Ann, I understand he was awarded his DFC on 2 November 1918. I'm presently working through thousands of award citations and I'll keep an eye out for any paperwork related to your great uncle. The material I'm talking about is what was forwarded from his Sqn to Brigade headquarters, and so would hopefully include all that Graeme has contributed, but also give wider material and point to specific events and days - they had to, in order to be considered for an award. 12 Sqn were in III Brigade, and I've still got some of theirs to look at, so hopefully something will turn up. Best regards, Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airshipped Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 The award of the DFC to A.W. MacNamara is mentioned in RAF Communiqué No.25 of 1918, which covers the period 16-22 September 1918. I don't see anything in the Air Combat reports to hand for 12 Squadron, so presumably the reference in the medal citation to driving EA off is to an indecisive encounter. The priority was of course aerial photography and not the quality of an aerial victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmacnamara Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Thank you Graeme, it is fascinating to have the wording of the citation. Do you know how I would get access to his army service records?I would be happy to visit at The National Archives at Kew but I don't know if they would have them there or whether I would be allowed to view them. Thanks again Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annmacnamara Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Sorry, just scrolled down the page and found two more responses that I hadn't spotted, thanks to you both, I am an novice in this and very grateful for any help Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airshipped Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Depending upon his date of birth Ann either one of these could be your ancestor: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8202579 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8202580 Please bear in mind though that if he continued to serve in the post-war years then it's unlikely that his service records would be publicly available, i.e. you'd need to apply for access to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmh2012 Posted 2 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2014 Hi My great grand uncle was called Lt Arthur William Macnamara from No 12 Sqn RAF. I saw his name mentioned on this forum and wondered if anybody would be able to advise me how I can find out more about him. I know he was awarded a DFC but don't know how I can find out more about why he was awarded it or how to find out more about his time during in the RAF. Any help would be appreciated Ann Hi Ann I like to know more about the Macnamara and Jonsson. I have been working on the story of Lt H Jonsson MC which was observer in RE8 B7888 of No 12 Sqn RAF which was flaying whit your great grand uncle Macnamara . I like to know do you have some more information about their work like photo of them and so on. And and also I did like to know something more about Lt Arthur William Macnamara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 Good old 12 Squadron.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perkin Posted 27 March , 2014 Share Posted 27 March , 2014 Hello Ann Lt Arthur W MacNamara has surfaced in research I am carrying out regarding old boys from my school. Would be glad to share what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 5 April , 2014 Share Posted 5 April , 2014 Do not know if this is relative, but hhere is award to member of 12 Squadron ; ARNOLD Anthony R N/E Sq.Cdr. RNAS 85T288 No. 12 Squadron Vice Admiral Dover Patrol 26.04.18 Gazetted R.N.A.S. Officers - Dunkirk 1917 DSC For brilliant work as a pilot and Flight Leader whilst attached to Naval Squadron No. 8, lent to the Royal Flying Corps, from March, 1917. Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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