alex falbo Posted 7 February , 2012 Share Posted 7 February , 2012 Can anyone give some evidence that the bandolier was used by infantry? Any information would be appreciated. This picture has spurned this interest on. And admittedly Baldrick's costume. I have read that the bandolier was only a cavalry issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 February , 2012 Share Posted 7 February , 2012 I think you might be confusing CAVALRY and MOUNTED. Men with mounted roles (battalion transport etc) in Infantry units were certainly issued with the 1903 bandoleer, as were artillerymen, ASC etc. So it is certainly incorrect to say they were only issued to cavalry. Here's a Gordon Highlander (transport section) and an artilleryman An engineer and an ASC man Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 7 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2012 I think you might be confusing CAVALRY and MOUNTED. Men with mounted roles (battalion transport etc) in Infantry units were certainly issued with the 1903 bandoleer, as were artillerymen, ASC etc. So it is certainly incorrect to say they were only issued to cavalry. Thanks for that Gordon. Had a look through my books and saw ASC men issued with them and didn't amend my question. Thanks for the pictures. My question does indeed have more to do with whether infantry riflemen carried them into battle during any point in the War. Particularly on the Western Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reese williams Posted 7 February , 2012 Share Posted 7 February , 2012 There's also the question of which bandoleer. The cavalry carried the nine pocket bandoleer and after 1915 the nine pocket bandoleer was also carries on the horse's neck. These are what is shown in the OP's first photo. Chris has provided pictures of the five pocket infantry bandoleer. I think where the confusion comes in is that the five pocket bandoleer was originally part of the 1903 infantry equipment and was issued to infantry. When the 1903 equipment was replaced by the 1908 web gear the 1903 bandoleer was withdraw from the infantry but issued to mounted soldiers such as drivers (both horse and mechanical), artillery troops etc. Remember, on an artillery team and on many of the wagon tems the driver didn't ride the vehicles they rode the horses in the team. The P-1908 web gear does not lend itself to being worn on horseback. There is no need for non-cavalry mounted troops to carry a pack, messkit entrenching tool etc on their person, those item would be caried in the wagon, limber whatever. All they need to have on their person is some rifle ammunition and a gas mask. The 1903 bandoleer is well suited to that task. It's difficuly to make a one size fits all set of gear when the roles between the infantry and the support troops is so different. Even with the P-37 gear there was a different set of the universial pouches for drivers. To finally answer your original question, no infantry wouldn't be wearing the P-1903 bandoleer in 1914 or later. (the one caveat would be if some TA troops might have still been equipped with P-1903 gear. Don't know the answer to that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thorne Posted 8 February , 2012 Share Posted 8 February , 2012 Many TA units wore the Patt. '03 Bandolier Equipment prior to the War (and into 1914-15), and some wild and wonderful variations were developed, including additional pockets, braces, packs, etc. Probably the last widespread infantry use of Bandolier Equipment was by a Territorial unit, the 1st/5th Lancashire Fusiliers, who landed in Gallipoli wearing '03 Pattern. The Pattern did continue in use in the Great War, with Colonial infantry, campaigning in Africa and also many of the Indian Army units on the Western Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 8 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2012 As I suspected. Some material suggested its use at Gallipoli by infantry but that's it. However, Martin Pegler illustrated that it was also used by snipers. Any confirmation or photos? Or more precisely, would it have been likely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Hello, Can someone tell me if the Pattern 1903 leather five pocket bandoleer was use by the members of the Canadian Mounted Rifles after 1915? Regards, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Can someone tell me if the Pattern 1903 leather five pocket bandoleer was use by the members of the Canadian Mounted Rifles after 1915? Richard Richard, I do know that the Canadian Mounted Rifles were still using the 50 round .303 Bandolier during the early part of WW1, and I have a 50 round Bandolier in my Collection issue marked to the ' CMR ' and dated 1914 ( photo attached ), also a photo of a WW1 CMR Trooper wearing such a Bandolier, plus a photo of the CMR parading in Canada before embarking for France, in which they are wearing the 50 round Bandolier. The CMR also used the Pattern 1903 at some point, and a photo of the 5th Canadian Mounted Rifles, showing them wearing the 1903 Bandolier, is also attached. Unfortunately, I do not have a date for the 1903 Bandolier photo. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 LF, Thanks a lot for your post! I saw studio photographs taken in 1915 showing enlisted men of the 1st CMR with the 50 round. 303 Bandolier, but I have never seen photos taken after 1915 where we can see CMR soldiers wearing a bandolier (perhaps your photo of the 5th CMR is one of them). By the way, your 50 round Bandolier is very nice! Regards, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 For what it's worth - you might look into which rifles the men were issued with (might be noted in War Diary etc) By 1916 (re your other post) I would think it highly unlikely that they did not have some form of charger loading rifle (ROSS, CLLE, SMLE) which would make the 50rd Bandolier obsolete but the 1903 pattern still effective. By early 1916 most British units on the Western Front had reequipped with SMLEs even if they started with MLE/CLLE. There was a "Canadian Pattern" bandolier very similar to the 1903 but with squarer pockets and different stitching. I have a picture of a Canadian ASC man wearing one somewhere and will dig it out and post it for you. Chris Edit: pic attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 Can someone tell me if the Pattern 1903 leather five pocket bandoleer was use by the members of the Canadian Mounted Rifles after 1915? Very unlikely as by then they had been converted to Infantry and would have been fitted out as Canadian Infantry, most likely with SMLE's and webbing cartridge carriers. "On January 1, 1916, both CMR brigades (six regiments) were dismounted, converted to infantry and reorganized as the 8th Infantry Brigade (four battalions)." [source Wiki] Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 In the photo of the 5th Canadian Mounted Rifles, they could be wearing the Bandolier shown in Chris' post #10, and they are also using ' rifle buckets ' to carry their rifles whilst mounted, see attached drawing. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 13 January , 2014 Share Posted 13 January , 2014 they did not have some form of charger loading rifle (ROSS, CLLE, SMLE) Nice pic of the Ross rifle in use, noting the doughnut hole in the bolt knob. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Chris, S>S, LF, It's very kind of you to give me all this information. Now, I think that the CMR members carried bandoliers until 1915 and that by 1916 they used the Web Infantry Equipment. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Now, I think that the CMR members carried bandoliers until 1915 and that by 1916 they used the Web Infantry Equipment. Richard Richard, Perhaps you can post a photo of your finished CMR display. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Richard, Perhaps you can post a photo of your finished CMR display. Regards, LF Yes, I will. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 To finally answer your original question, no infantry wouldn't be wearing the P-1903 bandoleer in 1914 or later. (the one caveat would be.... Another caveat would be that infantry battalions had horse transport elements, and you do see infantrymen wearing equipment, breeches etc normally associated with 'pure' mounted troops. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 I do not have a date for the 1903 Bandolier photo. June 4th 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 Another caveat would be that infantry battalions had horse transport elements, and you do see infantrymen wearing equipment, breeches etc normally associated with 'pure' mounted troops. Cheers, GT. So, it's not impossible that a member of the 5th CMR has a Pattern 1903 Bandolier in 1916-17, if he was part of transport elements for his unit. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 June 4th 1915. Many thanks, I appreciate the follow up. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 A Canadian ASC Driver - Wearing breeches and spurs, 1903 Bandolier, Brodie helmet ( on shoulder ), and carrying a SMLE rifle. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 14 January , 2014 Share Posted 14 January , 2014 So, it's not impossible that a member of the 5th CMR has a Pattern 1903 Bandolier in 1916-17, if he was part of transport elements for his unit. Richard No: but he would be in a very tiny minority. A typical soldier, representative of the battalion at that time, would be in webbing as per Joe's post in the other thread. To do otherwise would be to illustrate an atypical, unrepresentative example and not convey a true impression of the battalion as a whole. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 GT, Thanks for your opinion about the subject. I will consider it. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 FWIW I would completely agree with Grovetown. If your aim is to recreate a representative example from the battalion at this period I would go with the '08 web belt. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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