"Pals"

[Bob Coulson]

Recently been reading up on my locally raised battalion and have come across two separate references to them being an unofficial Pals battalion.

I was under the impression that the title of "PALS" was always just unofficially tagged onto units.

Could somebody come up with some clarification.?

Many Thanks

Bob.

[John_Hartley]

Bob

I'm sure you are right about it being an unofficial tag. I've just had a look through the Manchester City Battalions Book of Honour and there is no reference to "Pals". My guess is that the term was probably coined by the press after the catastrophe of 1/7/16.

The units that we usually know as "Pals" are all from northen industrial areas. I suspect that the "unofficial pals" term has been coined much later, perhaps to describe some of the Territorial units where groups of friends or colleagues did join up together, perhaps from less urbanised or working class areas.

In my own area, 1/6th Manchesters and 1/6th Cheshires are both good examples. Many of the former worked together in Manchester City centre cotton/cloth trades. In the latter, many members of the local lacrosse club joined together.

John

[CROONAERT]

Bob.

John's correct in what he has said. An example of "unnofficial" pals battallions can be found in Scotland (where no "Pals" Bns were officially formed). The 5th and 6th HLI (1st and 2nd City of Glasgow) have both been described as the "Glasgow Pals",as have the 15th, 16th and 17th HLI ("tramways", "boys brigade" and "commercials").In a way ,they were the same as a pals Bn.(lads from the same backgrounds/clubs/workplaces,etc. joining up together,as a group),but were never referred to as such.

As John has stated, no unit was "officially" a "Pals " bn. (not in army terms anyway). eg . the 1st "Manchester Pals" was officially the "16th (service)(1st City of Manchester) Battalion, the Manchester Regiment". The "Accrington Pals" were officially just the "11th (service) Battalion ,the East Lancashire Regiment". etc.,etc....

Dave.

[Paul Reed]

The units that we usually know as "Pals" are all from northen industrial areas. I suspect that the "unofficial pals" term has been coined much later, perhaps to describe some of the Territorial units where groups of friends or colleagues did join up together, perhaps from less urbanised or working class areas.

In many respects TF battalions were the original 'pals', especially when you look at the social make-up of units like the London Regiment. In local country regiments before WW1 the TF battalions had eight companies, all of which were locally raised, with local drill halls.

However, in terms of the New Army, Pals battalions were far from being confined to the North of England, and the term 'Pals' or 'Chums' was used long before 1st July 1916. For example, 14th and 15th Hampshires were the 1st and 2nd Portsmouth Pals battalions; both raised in the city in 1914/15.

[Terry_Reeves]

The use of the word "Pals" seems to have been applied to other types of units. I have a copy of a photograph from a local newspaper in 1915 which is a group photograph entitled "Leamington Pals Company." These were a company of the 1/7th Royal Warwickshire Regiment, a TF battalion.

It is also worth remembering that many RA and RE units were raised by local communities on the same basis as the infantry, although they were never referred to as "Pals" . In March 1915, dozens of sapper units were raised by Mayors and Corporations at the request of the War Office. These were initially entitled Fortress Company's, but later in the year were redesignated Army Troops Company's after acceptance by the War Office.

Terry Reeves

[Bob Coulson]

Many thanks to all for the replies.

I have looked a little further into the "pals" in general and it seems that the first unit to be given the title were the 17th Battalion Kings Liverpool Regiment formed August 29th 1914.

Bob.

[CROONAERT]

It is also worth remembering that many RA and RE units were raised by local communities on the same basis as the infantry, although they were never referred to as "Pals" .

Some of these had the serial number prefix "L". It has been suggested that this could stand for "Local".

Dave.

[Paul Reed]

It is also worth remembering that many RA and RE units were raised by local communities on the same basis as the infantry,  although they were never referred to as "Pals" .

Some of these had the serial number prefix "L". It has been suggested that this could stand for "Local".

Dave.

An article in the OMRS journal some years ago identified the 'L' prefix to the artillery standing for 'Limited' engagement i.e. 4 years or the duration of the war (like the equivalent infantry soldier in the New Army divisions).

The only 'local' units in theory in the RA were TF units, but I have seen some New Army Brigades that claim a local connection.

[Terry_Reeves]

The "L" prefix does not appear to have applied to the RE in this respect, although specific number blocks seem to have been allocated to them.

Terry Reeves

[Bob Coulson]

I believe the "L" prefix also applied to Lancers and some home counties regiments, also SWales Borderers.

[CROONAERT]

I believe the "L" prefix also applied to Lancers and some home counties regiments, also SWales Borderers.

Only the 3rd battalion SWB. "L" could also stand for "line" in some line regiments. (possibly pre-WW1).

Dave.

[Guest FRANKBARTHOLOMEW]

Just to make a point here- the Pals Battalions sometimes enlisted some 'celebrities'. The 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment (7th City), had amongst its ranks the great economist R.H. Tawney- who was a Sergeant (even though he was a graduate of Balliol College, Oxford)- and his fellow academic Alfred 'Bill' Bland, a Company Commander.

Frank Bartholomew

[saintone]

I refer to Graham Maddocks publication " Liverpool Pals". He observes that The 17th Earl of Derby is usually given the credit for the concept of the Pals battalions, and it was certainly he who brought the whole idea in to fruition having discussed this matter with Kitchener (August 24th 1914). Lord Derby approached the Liverpool Press (August 27th 1914) with the basic idea that men who worked together in the close confines of a business, and who met together socially as 'pals' might well respond to a call to serve together.

However Peter Simkins in his publication 'Kitchener's Army' indicates Sir Henry Rawlinson acting upon Kitchener's instructions, was instrumental in initiating the raising of the 10th (Service) Battalion, The Royal Fusiliers (August 19th 1914) unoffically known as 'The Stockbrokers Battalion', it was, to all intents and purposes a Pals battalion, being made up from men who worked in the offices of the City of London.

[CROONAERT]

A photo of a "Pals" unit that I'd never come across before... unforgivable seeing as I live less than 20 miles away!.

From the regimental history of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment....

Dave.

[zandhaas]

For example, 14th and 15th Hampshires were the 1st and 2nd Portsmouth Pals battalions; both raised in the city in 1914/15.

Do you more info on the 2nd Portsmouth Pals or where i can find more info on them?

[Jerrymurland]

The use of the word "Pals" seems to have been applied to other types of units.

146 Heavy Battery RGA were a PALS unit - mostly all Hull postal workers.

Jerry

[manchester regiment]

the 16th manchesters had platoons that were mostly made up of men from one place of work,one platoon was from S+J watts,one from phillips another were from the refuge assurance,many of the refuge lads came from northwich,another platoon from one of the other pals batts were nearly all from ashton bros.Ltd,

i agree with john about the 1/6th manchesters,they worked togethor,played various sports togethor,lived locally and many were friends or knew each other,a lot were also related,pretty sure hes right about the 6th cheshires being the same,the ashton territorials were truly a pals battalion,most were related or were friends,even their officers lived amongst them,300 of them all lived in hurst,ashton,including their ledgendary QM. major connery and his sons,he knew all his men by name,paul and johns description of a true pals batt being the local terriers is more accurate,bernard

[Graham Stewart]

Having read through this one after being away I have to disagree with the notion of Territorial units being described as being "Pals" units because of the nature of their original social background from which they came. Firstly prior to 1908, they were known as Volunteer Battalions and affiliated to local County Regiments. Prior to 1881 they were independent Volunteer Rifle Corps unaffiliated to local regiments, and for the majority of those who enrolled as Volunteers from 1859 and through the 1860's onwards, their social backgrounds were totally the opposite of what we regard as "Pals" units of the Great War.

For many of those wishing to enroll into a V.R.C. the one thing that was needed was money as the bulk of these units were kept going through the subscribtion of their members, as the government only supplied arms. The members themselves were far from being working class, the majority being regarded as Artisans or from the lower middle classes. The place for the working classes at this time was in the Militia and not by choice but by ballot.

Even with the social changes from 1859 through to the formation of the T.F. in 1908, and a definate increase in the numbers of working class men enrolling, they were far from being "Pals" units, as they enrolled as individuals under their own criteria, but knowing at the end of the training season they would recieve a "bounty" for their services. The fact remains with T.F. units that men travelled to the unit of their choice, but it was rare to find whole streets/works/offices enrolling into these battalions. The very thought that educated office staff would enroll as a mere private soldier, is one that didn't apply to the T.F., many becoming officers, unlike the 16th(Service)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers(Newcastle) where the bulk of the men were infact office workers and their original title was the "1st Commercials", which tells you what background they came from socially.

The term "Pals" in the sense as we know it never appeared to describe units before the Great War, and in that sense it may have been coined by the Press for those units which were infact officially described as "Locally Raised Battalions" who were raised by individuals/committees as stated in War Office Instructions.

For me personnally the only real "Pals" units were those formed during the Great War.

Graham.

[Jack Alexander]

Bob.

John's correct in what he has said. An example of "unnofficial" pals battallions can be found in Scotland (where no "Pals" Bns were officially formed). The 5th and 6th HLI (1st and 2nd City of Glasgow) have both been described as the "Glasgow Pals",as have the 15th, 16th and 17th HLI ("tramways", "boys brigade" and "commercials").In a way ,they were the same as a pals Bn.(lads from the same backgrounds/clubs/workplaces,etc. joining up together,as a group),but were never referred to as such.

There's only one contemporary reference to a 'Pals' battalion in Scotland. Briefly - very briefly - the 1st Edinburgh City Battalion was referred to in the local press as the 'Edinburgh Pals'. I'm guessing (because all the principals have gone now!) that this is simply because slightly more than half the original volunteers came from Manchester and its surrounding boroughs. For a while it looked as if this unit was going to be adopted by the King's Own Scottish Borderers; at length, however, they became 15th (Service) Bn The Royal Scots.

The battalion's organisation was ethnically divided - a mistake, probably. It's possible that the Lancashire half continued to think of itself as a 'Pals' unit in some way. Their sister battalion, 16th Royal Scots, on the other hand, (who had a peculiarly fine conceit of themselves) deliberately eschewed the 'Pals' ethos and served proudly under the name of their Colonel - apparently the only unit in the British Army to do so during the war.

[Glesga Highlander]

On 25/11/2006 at 14:48, Jack Alexander said:

16th Royal Scots, on the other hand, (who had a peculiarly fine conceit of themselves) deliberately eschewed the 'Pals' ethos and served proudly under the name of their Colonel - apparently the only unit in the British Army to do so during the war.

There was another battalion who done likewise Jack.

 

Highland Light Infantry Chronicles .Volume XIX ., NO3. July 1919. Page 99

 

16th Battalion' Notes.

 

It is still to us, however, the dear old Sixteenth, for the glorious old spirit of a comradeship in arms, is living still on  those on whom the mantle has fallen. Lieut. Colonel R. Kyle, C.M.G., D.S.O., is still in command. He has been with the Battalion since its "inception in 1914, and is the  Battalions greatest friend.

 

The latest Birthday Honours brought the Battalion further laurels, and it is with the greatest joy that we record among them the award of the C.M.G. to our Colonel. Never has an honour been more worthily won. With the new guard as with the old, it is still  a delight to be known as “Bob Kyle’s Own”.

Edited 10 June , 2018 by Glesga Highlander
Deleted the original