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Remembered Today:

British Submarines in China Seas


SomersetCricketer

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Hi Everyone,

Heres hoping someone can help me, I have just found a 1911 Census Return, where my Great Uncle was onboard the C37 Submarine, traveling to or arrived in China. Does anyone have any information on A; The C37 at this time, B; Why did we send a submarine flotilla all that way.

Thanks in advance for your help.

SomersetCricketer

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Hi.

A description of the voyage to Hong Kong in an Australian newspaper:

BY SUBMARINE TO HONG KONG

http://trove.nla.gov...rticle/72430119

Use the zoom bottom-right to improve legibility.

You may find other articles of interest:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

I believe the three submarines were still based at the China Station at the start of the war.

regards,

Martin

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Hi,

Remarkably I too have just found my Great Uncle Percy Walker was also on C37 in China in 1911.

If I find any other information I will let you know .

Tony

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post-87182-0-83841100-1327769215.jpg Thought you might like a picture of C class submarines of the era
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Hi Tony,

you are correct that Percy Walker was in C37, the submariners were towed by surface vesslels, and the crews of C36, C37, & C38 show they were drafted to each ship for the passage, so C37 crew you will notice are drafted to HMS Hyflyer then to HMS Rosario depot ship after arrival. It won't say C37 on his papers, but we know he was C37 due to being drafted to HMS Hyflyer. Lt Fenner wrote about this passage. Will see if i can dig it out.

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Cricketer - whar was your GUncles name ?? May have his Service Record if you wish.

Tony - here is such that I have on a Percy Walker - later lost E.10.

Is that your GUncle ??

WALKER PERCY LDG STO P/K 379 NE RN SM E.10 21.01.15 Z

29 070186 F PORTSMOUTH 8 PORTSMOUTH 2 - 162

Son of James and Elizabeth Walker, of 32 Cyril St., Northampton.

Killed in loss of vessel in North Sea.

HMS MAIDSTONE. ADM 188 / 867. N.P 382 / 15.

P.o.B ; Northampton. Occ ; Stoker O.N. 102007

Have others C36 / 37 /38 such as above in the time frame with more info.

Sadsac

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Cricketer - whar was your GUncles name ?? May have his Service Record if you wish.

Have others C36 / 37 /38 such as above in the time frame with more info.

Sadsac

Hi further to this request, my Great Uncles name was Charles John Colbran, I have a copy of his Service record but to be honest a coulpe of lines of it I was unable to decipher/read well enough to know what ship/boat he was on.

Late in 1915 he was to lose his life whilst serving on H which was sunk by a "British" Merchantman, whilst on the surface off the coast of Wales.

Any real help in understanding his service record or about the length of time the three Subs were posted to China gratefully received.

SomersetCricketer

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Hi further to this request, my Great Uncles name was Charles John Colbran, I have a copy of his Service record but to be honest a coulpe of lines of it I was unable to decipher/read well enough to know what ship/boat he was on.

Late in 1915 he was to lose his life whilst serving on H which was sunk by a "British" Merchantman, whilst on the surface off the coast of Wales.

Any real help in understanding his service record or about the length of time the three Subs were posted to China gratefully received.

SomersetCricketer

Name: COLBRAN, CHARLES JOHN

Initials: C J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Petty Officer

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy

Unit Text: H.M. S/M. "H5."

Age: 34

Date of Death: 02/03/1918

Service No: 208778

Awards: D S M

Additional information: Son of the late Thomas and Jane Colbran, of Hastings, Sussex.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 28.

Memorial: PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

The Naval History Net has it that "H.5, submarine, rammed and sunk in error in Irish Sea"

see http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1918-03Mar.htm for a full list of the casualties

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Hi,

Remarkably I too have just found my Great Uncle Percy Walker was also on C37 in China in 1911.

If I find any other information I will let you know .

Tony

Hi Tony

That would be great, I have looked at the Australian Newspaper report that some one else has noted in this thread, only a Lieutenant Codrington is mentioned by name.

It is quite a good report on how they got there.

Steve

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Name: COLBRAN, CHARLES JOHN

Initials: C J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Petty Officer

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy

Unit Text: H.M. S/M. "H5."

Age: 34

Date of Death: 02/03/1918

Service No: 208778

Awards: D S M

Additional information: Son of the late Thomas and Jane Colbran, of Hastings, Sussex.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 28.

Memorial: PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

The Naval History Net has it that "H.5, submarine, rammed and sunk in error in Irish Sea"

see http://www.naval-his...s1918-03Mar.htm for a full list of the casualties

Thanks for that, I do have this information I started writing my earlier reply without really thinking properly, but it is great people are able to help one another like this.

Steve

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Hello Steve - if you have had difficulty in reading the ADM 188 record, then if you post it here some knowledgeable fellow will explain, no doubt.

Here is your GUncle's Submarine Service Record and details of loss ;

COLBRAN CHARLES JOHN PO ST P/ 208778 DSM RN

SM H.5 02.03.18 Z 34 301284 C F

PORTSMOUTH 28 PORTSMOUTH 7 - 523

160808 & 070815TC 080816

SC 090122 BONAVENTURE

C14 090700

SC 110113 FORT BLOCKHOUSE

C37 110208 CHINA STATION

C14 B7 130306 FORT BLOCKHOUSE

TO GS 130819 DISCHARGED TO GS

150806 DOLPHIN

DD H5 070318 SENIOR 160808 LS 200116 PO 011017

C S EXPIRES 021214

RECOMMENDED BY VULCAN

AGE 34 PORTSMOUTH 28 - 7 - 523

Son of the late Thomas and Jane Colbran, of Hastings, Sussex.

Drowned in accidental loss of vessel in the Irish Sea.

HMS VULCAN. ADM 188 / 364. AG 349 / 18.

Awarded D.S.M. London Gazette of 5/9/16.

Rammed and sunk by S.S. RUTHERGLEN.

Position 53°04'N 04°40'W.

P.o.B ; Ore, Sussex. Occ ; Seaboy.

Was on H.5 when it sank U-51 on 14 July 1916. Received DSM.

You will note that he received the DSM - no doubt you know that ??

Sadsac

Good Hunting

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Hi,

Yes this is my Great Uncle Percy, he was a brother of my Grandfather Horace Walker, who served in the RNR in WW1.

I would appreciate any info on C37 or E10.

Thanks, Tony

Cricketer - whar was your GUncles name ?? May have his Service Record if you wish.

Tony - here is such that I have on a Percy Walker - later lost E.10.

Is that your GUncle ??

WALKER PERCY LDG STO P/K 379 NE RN SM E.10 21.01.15 Z

29 070186 F PORTSMOUTH 8 PORTSMOUTH 2 - 162

Son of James and Elizabeth Walker, of 32 Cyril St., Northampton.

Killed in loss of vessel in North Sea.

HMS MAIDSTONE. ADM 188 / 867. N.P 382 / 15.

P.o.B ; Northampton. Occ ; Stoker O.N. 102007

Have others C36 / 37 /38 such as above in the time frame with more info.

Sadsac

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Hi,

Thanks for your reply, very interested in anything you can dig out.

Regards, Tony

Hi Tony,

you are correct that Percy Walker was in C37, the submariners were towed by surface vesslels, and the crews of C36, C37, & C38 show they were drafted to each ship for the passage, so C37 crew you will notice are drafted to HMS Hyflyer then to HMS Rosario depot ship after arrival. It won't say C37 on his papers, but we know he was C37 due to being drafted to HMS Hyflyer. Lt Fenner wrote about this passage. Will see if i can dig it out.

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Hi Tony

Here is what information regarding C37 that I have found on 1911 Census

Hope this will be new to you

Submarine C37 - Captain A A A L Fenner - Station China - Whereabouts April 1911 Columbo Harbour

Submarine with a compliment of 21 men, 2 Commisioned Officers, 19 Others

Percy Walker 25 last birthday, Single, Stoker, Birth Northampton, Faith Wesleyan

Thats all I have for the moment

Steve

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Tony, here is another crew of C.37 at the time.

Dates given show where boats / ships were at the time.

KERR ALEXANDER CERA 2 BM P/ 271504 NE RN 191281

290208 & 300115

DD E49 210317 JOINED RN 180304

SENIOR IN RATING 010716

AGE 35 PORTSMOUTH 25 - 6 - 463

Son of Thomas and Margaret Kerr, of Glasgow ; husband of Nellie Edith Kerr, of 127 New Rd., Buckland, Portsmouth.

Killed by mine explosion off Shetland Islands.

HMS LUCIA. ADM 188 / 436. AG 348 / 17.

P.o.B ; Glasgow, Lanark. Occ ; Boilermaker

MERCURY 080229

HIGHFLYER 110207

ROSARIO 110401 C36 C37 C38

DOLPHIN 130429

GENERAL SERVICE

SUBMARINES 310115

150204 MAIDSTONE

150424 DOLPHIN

E49 161222 LUCIA

DD 170312 E49 LUCIA

Sadsac

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Hi Everyone,

Can anyone interpret the abbreviations in Percy's record below?

Thanks for any help.

Regards, Tony

Cricketer - whar was your GUncles name ?? May have his Service Record if you wish.

Tony - here is such that I have on a Percy Walker - later lost E.10.

Is that your GUncle ??

WALKER PERCY LDG STO P/K 379 NE RN SM E.10 21.01.15 Z

29 070186 F PORTSMOUTH 8 PORTSMOUTH 2 - 162

Son of James and Elizabeth Walker, of 32 Cyril St., Northampton.

Killed in loss of vessel in North Sea.

HMS MAIDSTONE. ADM 188 / 867. N.P 382 / 15.

P.o.B ; Northampton. Occ ; Stoker O.N. 102007

Have others C36 / 37 /38 such as above in the time frame with more info.

Sadsac

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Tony, here interpretation ;

Ldg Sto = Leading Stoker

P/K = Portsmouth Rating & K = Stoker Class

RN = Royal Navy

21.01.15 = Date of loss of boat

Z = WW1

29 = Age at loss

070186 = Date of Birth

OCC = Occupation on joining RN

PoB = Place of Birth

ADM 188 / 867 = Admiralty file in PRO/NA

O.N 102007 = Ordinary Number (prior to later RN Number - so he has a Record under that listing PRO

N.P = Naval Pension ???

Sadsac

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"O.N 102007 = Ordinary Number (prior to later RN Number - so he has a Record under that listing PRO"

ON = Official Number. His prior service would have been as a Special Service Stoker with ON SS.102007, before transferring to Continuous Service Stoker with ON K.379. His SS record is here:-

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7307112&queryType=1&resultcount=1

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Horatio is correct in both Posts - OFFICIAL number & MAIDSTONE was the Depot ship to which he was posted for pay/admin/service prior to post to submarine.

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Thanks once again, Tony

I expect HMS MAIDSTONE was the submarine depot ship in which he was borne for pay and administration.

Thanks once again, Tony

Horatio is correct in both Posts - OFFICIAL number & MAIDSTONE was the Depot ship to which he was posted for pay/admin/service prior to post to submarine.

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Hi Everyone,

Firstly thanks for all the info about this question I posted. This has led me to find the 1911 Census for the C37 as well as the C36, although I cannot find the C38, C37 has its own entry as listed to be in Colombo Harbour, C36 is listed as part of the Crew of HMS Pelorus (noted to be lying alongside on the 2 April and ALL the crew were sleeping onboard), although I do not believe the Captain was onboard, the C37 had 21 Officers and Men listed, the C36 has 19, would they have had the same compliment of men? and where was the C38?

I have looked at all the returns of China Shipping and cannot see it listed nor was it listed like C36 as being tied up alongside. Also in the report in the New South Wales Newspaper it notes a HMS Flora, this ship is also missing, is it possible that they became seperated and were at different stages of the journey?

Steve

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A search on the Catalogue of The National Archives for C38 within RG 14 (the 1911 census returns) also doesn't find any hits, though C37 does. It may be that its returns we're included under those for its depot ship perhaps

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