Centenary of the Charge of the 12th Lancers, Moÿ de l'Aisne, 28 Au

[HHQ 9/12L]

Hedley - I have some ideas on the Germans - General Senden was serving with the MNB about 15 years ago and he was very helpful. We will have to try and track him down. Likewise the Gaylin von Althein family are stll politically active. I will put out some enquiries.

Frank - see you in Hohne

Phil

[LANCER]

Hi Phil

Have heard that The Regiment is one of the ones to be disbanded . Any word on this

Frank

[Steven Broomfield]

Hi Phil

Have heard that The Regiment is one of the ones to be disbanded . Any word on this

Frank

Oh no - sad news. Presumably the fact they've not been amalgamated for nigh on 50 years meant the MOD had to do something. Any other info?

[LANCER]

Nothing confirmed as yet still trying to find out if this is correct

Lancer

[HHQ 9/12L]

No news - all rumour - nobody knows and the date for the announcement keeps being delayed - Phil

[LANCER]

Many thanks Phill wil keep my fingers crossed.See you at Mons Moy.

Frank

[burton2]

Phil

My grandfather, Jock Crabbe, was a troop leader in C Squadron RSG at Moy/Cerizy. Foster Swetenham who was killed that day was his squadron commander.

If you're still looking for unpublished accounts of the action, I'd be happy to send you a copy of a letter he wrote to his father shortly thereafter giving details of what he descibes as "that small fight".

Jeremy Burton

[lionboxer]

Jeremy, can you post it on here for all to see please?

Lionboxer

[burton2]

Of course. I hope you don't mind a transcript though as the original is quite difficult to decipher.

The letter was written on 31 Aug or 1 Sep 1914 during the Retreat, somewhere near Compiegne. It reads as follows,

My dear Father

Nothing doing these last few days since the 28th but here are details of that small fight.

C squadron Scots Greys took up a firing position & kept the Germans occupied while one squadron 12th Lancers worked round their flank & charged them.

Two of our guns helped matters. We picked up 68 of them on the field & the guns shelled them retiring causing great damage. It was very sad about Fos being

killed & now Toby commands the squadron. So far we have lost 1 officer killed & 2 wounded (Archie Leven & the Bart) & 2 men killed & about eight wounded.

We seem to be retiring slowly on Paris but the strategyof this campaign absolutely beats one & this continued retiring never gives the horses a chance,

but the bay horse is sticking it well & is only a little leg weary; the chestnut is also well.

The weather here is very hot during the day & quite decent at night & is a very good country for game, plenty of partridges & big coveys too. We had about 3 days

in the forests & were all very glad when we got out as it is jumpy work in there owing to their thickness. Letters seem to take about a fortnight going to & fro & we do

not often receive them. I saw Maurice the other day & I believe the [?th] have been doing a lot of trusty work. These Germans take a lot of stopping as they come on

in crowds & being mowed down does not seem to worry them as they seem to have plenty of fresh troops handy.

I wonder how your depot is getting along. You will probably be there for a long time as this war might go on for a very long time.

Very best love to all & hope this letter will reach you soon.

Yours ever

Jock Crabbe

Notes:

Fos (Major Foster Swetenham) is buried in the town cemetery at Cerizy. He had fought with JC's father in the Boer War.

Toby (Captain Walter Long) was 2ic A squadron before taking command of C squadron.

Archie Leven (Lt the Earl of Leven & Melville) was a troop leader in A squadron.

The Bart (2Lt Sir Gawine Baillie) was a troop leader in C squadron. He was killed about a week later during the Battle of the Marne.

[HHQ 9/12L]

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for posting the letter, it adds a little more to the story, and it helps corroborate the German casualties for the day. The pick-up on the field is often added to the overall total and misquoted in the 300s by other authors. The account by Paul Maze from his point of view is very good, and it helps place him and the location of Major Swetenham when he is killed - have you read it?

Thank you for sharing this with us.

Regards

Phil Watson

[lionboxer]

Thanks for that Jeremy. Sounds like the end of a pheasant drive when the dead un's are picked up!! Any idea why they would bother picking up the dead Germans, or is this a term for counting, searching and identifying the casualties?

Lionboxer

[HHQ 9/12L]

The figures generally include the wounded in with the dead - the pick-up was by 5th Cav Field Amb.

The figures for the German casualties for the day are difficult to calculate. Lt Leche estimated that 68 Germans were killed outright in the charge, 13 were wounded of whom 11 died in the ambulance, and 1 Officer and 3 men captured, all wounded except two. About twenty slipped away into a hollow road and were caught by the Greys. Pte Lawrence stated that their casualties were heavy, 58 bodies having lance wounds and many must have died from bullets and shells. These figures only deal with the three Squadrons of Dragoons and not any other casualties incurred by the German Brigade.

These figures do not differ greatly from those known for 1^st Guards Dragoons. The figures for 2^nd Squadron were 21 casualties which included five dead (Unteroffizer Rühlmann, Lange, Dragoons Fisscher, Jasschke, Larus and Rohmann) and fourteen wounded (including Capt von Rheinhaben who was wounded, but stayed with the Regiment). 4^th Squadron are credited with 23 casualties, which include eight dead (Lt Graf von Schwerin, Gefreiters Engelmann, Stüdermann, Schulz, Stammer and Dragoons Klowonn, Nanmann, Wenzel) and fourteen wounded. Many of the wounded are annotated with “later returned to Regiment” (most within three days), which is possibly a result of the capture of the ambulance witnessed by Pte Masterson in Moy. There are no figures for 2^nd Guards Dragoons and the only known casualty is Lt Heinrich Graf von Finckenstein, however if this Squadron suffered similar casualties the figure of 60-80 would seem reasonable. It would appear that the level of some of wounds was severe, Dr Vogel, who was the Chaplin to the Guards Cavalry Division, reported “some men with six-seven lance wounds and several bullet wounds and were taken prisoner by the enemy”

It is the German story I am working on at the moment - so any help from anyone out there would be great!

Phil Watson

[burton2]

Phil,

I haven't read Paul Maze's account but will see if I can find it. Thank you for the lead.

Lionboxer,

I have no idea about the term in this context but agree that it does sound like picking up birds at the end of a drive - something my grandfather did a lot of over the years!

[HHQ 9/12L]

By Maze:

MOY - A VIEW FROM THE GREYS

The 20th Hussars and the 12th Lancers were nearby. The whole of the 5th Brigade was concentrated. Patrols were out, while a whole Squadron of the Greys commanded the approach of the entire valley in which we were sheltered. The Brigade was thus well safeguarded against any surprise.

Everybody was resting, lying in the hot sun, when at about eleven o’clock the report came in from one of the outlying patrols that it had been withdrawn from its position, having been engaged by enemy scouts. Two German Squadrons had been seen advancing a little way behind them. There was an immediate stir, Major Swetenham (Royal Scots Greys, to which Regiment Major Maze was attached) galloping off with his trumpeter and our squadrons mounting and dispersing with a section of guns. I remained with the limbers, expecting every moment something to happen. After what seemed an age, for we were left on our own, the rest of the battery (J Battery) was ordered up and I jumped on to a limber following. By a high bank, where the led horses of one of our troops had been left, we stopped. At that moment rapid musketry fire opened from the top of the bank and, just as I reached the men, who were firing from behind a hedge at an advance guard, bullets whistled through the leaves, coming from halfway up the distant spur, where a large body of cavalry had dismounted, and over which J Battery’s shells were properly bursting. The next second the enemy’s horses, which were being quickly led to shelter, were stampeding, scampering up the hill, caught in the rapid fire of another of our (The Greys’) squadrons with machine guns. What followed was timed to perfection like an event at a tattoo, when, suddenly, from the corner of the ring, deployed cavalry appears and a charge finishes the tableau. J Battery lifting its fire, the 12th Lancers who had worked round the right of our troops unobserved, sprang on the scene at full gallop, dashing for the flank of the disorganised Germans. The charge went through them like a flash, and the men pulled up their horses, re-formed, and once again rode through the enemy. By the time that the Greys had come on ready to charge, the work was done; only a confusion of dead and wounded was left on the ground.

I ran down into the valley as one does towards the scene of an accident. Remounted squadrons with drawn swords were also hurrying to the scene. As a few Germans were hiding in the corn-stooks lances and swords were thrust through the hay and I heard fearful yells. The horses were very excited, as were the men, who were showing to each other blood dripping off their sword blades. Others were busy picking up souvenirs.

Meanwhile, I had propped up a wounded German Dragoon, who was vomiting quantities of undigested, unripe, gooseberries. He had nasty sword thrust through his chest. In broken English he told me that he had only left the Ritz in London twenty days before, where he had been a waiter, but what I was interested to find out was whether they were the vanguard of a large force of Cavalry. He said that several divisions were in the vicinity. I wrote this down on a piece of paper and had it immediately sent to the Colonel. By then, the regiments had re-formed and were drawing away from the scene, and as I could see myself being left behind again, I hurried towards where I had left the limbers. I was just in time, for they were off, and I was cursed by the sergeant for leaving them, as he said that an officer had instructed him to keep an eye on me. At that moment our guns unexpectedly fired again. It was Captain Dendie who, just as his section was limbering up, saw another advance party of enemy Dragoons on the reverse slope. Taking advantage of a target with open sights, he ordered his guns to re-open fire. This opportune intervention gave the brigade time to withdraw at leisure. As from my limber I looked round, I saw Major Swetenham’s trumpeter coming towards us, leading a horse with an empty saddle. I guessed at once what had happened - Major Swetenham had been killed. I felt his death deeply. He with another officer, who had been shot through the head, and six wounded men were our only casualties in that engagement.

Making three long columns, the three regiments were now trotting across stubble fields in the wake of the brigade staff, who were cantering ahead with their escort, distinguished by a red pennant fluttering from a lance. The shining bamboos of lances and the bright coats of the horses encircled the battery, whose wheels noiselessly crushed the straw. A dog that had suddenly appeared from nowhere, moved in rhythm with the cavalcade, delighted with his new attachment. A feeling of satisfaction ran through the ranks, and the horses stepped out proudly. There was every reason for this elation - the enemy cavalry had been dealt a blow which would make them realise that they still had to reckon with the British Cavalry. They would in future not advance as they had done that morning without taking the rudimentary precautions. It seemed incredible that a large force of cavalry with their reputation should have moved over open country without throwing out strong patrols to reconnoitre the ground.

[lionboxer]

Phil

That's quite a dramatic account and really brings to life the action. How's the book progressing? Publishing date yet?

Lionboxer

[burton2]

Many thanks Phil.

The wounded officer was 2Lt Sir Gawaine Baillie who was shot through the hand not the head. He was killed on 7 Sep in Rebais, charging some Germans with his sword drawn and one arm in a sling.

Jeremy

[trooper159]

As an ex Lancer i do remember a parade in Detmold when we paraded along with the RHA and took the position 'right of the line' over the RHA in deference to our recovery of the guns at Moy

Barry

[seaforth78]

As an ex Lancer i do remember a parade in Detmold when we paraded along with the RHA and took the position 'right of the line' over the RHA in deference to our recovery of the guns at Moy

Barry

That is very memorable as the action is still remembered till this day.

[Jerrymurland]

The action is also covered in my book Retreat and Rearguard 1914.

[seaforth78]

A bit dated I know but was Major Milvain involved in the charge as well? As well as I might I couldn't find if he embarked with the Regiment to France in 1914. Any help?

[cliffcole]

Hi,

Can someone please tell me the itinerary for the 100th Anniversary Commemorations. Will it take place in France?

Pte Hugh Nolan was one of the X11 Lancers killed that day and my mate and I plan to go to the scene of the "affair" on the day.

Regards to all.

Cliff

[Hedley Malloch]

Hi,

Can someone please tell me the itinerary for the 100th Anniversary Commemorations. Will it take place in France?

Pte Hugh Nolan was one of the X11 Lancers killed that day and my mate and I plan to go to the scene of the "affair" on the day.

Regards to all.

Cliff

Plans are well advanced for the centenary of the battle of Moÿ on 28 August 2014. This will take place at Moÿ de l'Aisne. There is some crossing of ts and dotting of is to be done, but your uncle and the others who died that day will be appropriately commemorated. Given your family connection you should contact the 9/12th Lancers Regimental Association who have been working hard on this project to tell them that you mean to attend. Phil Watson and Martyn Pocock, the officers of the Association have posted in this thread. Or you can drop me a PM.

See you on the 28th of August.

[cliffcole]

Thanks Hedley.

We need to dot a few i's ourselves before we can confirm but it looks a goer.

I'll keep an eye open and contact the Association when we know what's happening our end.

I look forward to being there.

Best regards,

Cliff

[Hedley Malloch]

Cliff

The programme for the day will be posted here as soon as it is firmed up.

Looking forward to meeting you there.

Regards

Hedley

[Guest Danielle]

Dear All,

Here at HHQ 9/12L our focus is very much towards the last two mounted lance charges of the antecedent regiments. Much work is already underway to ensure the 100^th Anniversary is commemorated in style. For my part I have been putting together the story of the 12L at Moy for the last 15 years and would like to bring it all together in time for the anniversary. I am always looking for unpublished accounts or photographs to complete the story especially for 1^st and 2^nd Garde Dragoner (who were both present and charged that day). To that end please point all interested parties to the forum and I will be happy to share and answer and specific questions regarding this action – Regards Phil Watson

Hello Phil,

I'm researching a man called William Bertram Bell who was a member of the 12th Lancers. I've downloaded his medal card and see from it that he was in the BEF and deployed in August, but am not a military historian and am struggling a little. I'm interested in his service in the Great War generally but am particularly keen to find out if he was involved in the charge at Moy. I think at this time he was a captain but later became a major. He married the daughter of Arthur Hugh Smith-Barry of Fota house in Cork where the couple lived up until the 1970s. He is fondly remembered as 'Major Bell'. I work at the house and we are researching lots of stories about the house and WWI. The Smith-Barrys are the same family as Robert Smith-Barry of the Gosport system so we should have a really rich set of stories to tell.

Anyway, if you could offer any help with William Bertram Bell I would be most, most grateful.

Thanks in advance, really enjoying reading the posts in the forum.

Danielle