From Memorial to Grave

[Stebie9173]

If I may, I would like to pick the brains of those in the know about a soldier who probably has a "known" grave yet is commemorated on the Pozieres Memorial.

For the moment, I would like to keep his name private as this is on behalf of other people.

The soldier I am referring to was posted as "wounded and missing" in early April 1918 near Hangard Wood and was apparently later found and reburied in a known grave in Adelaide Cemetery at Villers Bretonneux some time around the end of the war. The Adelaide Cemetery contains the graves of those buried in the vicinity, those brought in from cemeteries (on the far side of the cemetery from Hangard) and those brought in from the area, presumably including Hangard Wood.

In the early 1920s the family was sent the usual form for a specific numbered grave in Adelaide Cemetery and asked to send the IWGC the usual short epitaph for the grave. Being unable to afford the money for any words to be carved, the family did not send the form back and kept the form.

Much later, when another part of the family was enquiring into the soldier's grave in the early 1970s it was realised that he was not commemorated on any grave or memorial on the Western Front, and subsequent to some abortive enquiries by the CWGc he was added to the Addenda panel of the Pozieres Memorial.

Now that the form that states his actual grave has been found - and said grave is for an "Unknown soldier of the Northamptonshire Regiment" (his regiment) - initial contact with CWGC has been made (not by myself however) which has basically been met with the initial response of "there is no available documentation, so we cannot recognise that grave as his".

So! My question here is, what can/should be done about the possibility of being able to rededicate the specific grave in Adelaide Cemetery (eventually, after the proper confirmation, if such is possible)?

Anyone have any thought, please, especially as this is so far out of my usual sphere?

Steve.

[Tom Morgan]

Could you clear up a point for me, Steve - does the family still have the original form which gives a name and a grave reference for the soldier? (I assume it must have been the Final Verification Form).

[Ken Lees]

Do the family still have the form? Has that been presented as part of the 'evidence'? If not, perhaps the CWGC would take a different view if they were to see the documentation.

[Stebie9173]

Yes, the family still have the original form with both name and grave Plot/Row/Number - however, not being an expert on this and having sight of the actual form apart from a short look at it without knowing what I was looking for - I don't know whether it was FINAL or whether there were other variations of the form. I believe that this has been at least specifically referred to in a letter, but I don't know if it has been presented as evidence.

From the initial conversations with the local WFA chairman who is helping the family, it seems that this form is the only place where a reference is still held to the garve, since the CWGC do not seem to have a record themselves.

I assume the IWGc would not ask a family for a dedication for the grave without being pretty darn sure it was his.

Steve.

[Ken Lees]

I think a copy of the form should be sent to the CWGC as evidence and see where it goes from there.

[Tom Morgan]

It certainly sounds like the Final Verification Form. As well as giving the opportunity for the next of kin to choose a personal inscription for the grave, it also gave them a chance to check and correct the details which were about to be put onto the grave and into the cemetery registers. (Such things as spelling of names, etc., or brief biographical details). The forms were not all returned, as people do move away. In such cases the Imperial War Graves Commission had to use the details it had, unchecked by the next-of-kin. There was no doubt at this stage that the grave had been correctly identified. The relatives weren't confirming the identity of the soldier. The IWGC had already done that. If today's Commonwealth War Graves Commission could see the form, which is after all, their earlier written record of where the grave is and who is buried in it, I can't see how they could ignore the information it contains.

Tom

[Stebie9173]

This is pretty much the view we have taken with the issue. As I said, I am not dealing with it directly (and the WFA chairman is more a letters man than an e-mailer so I have no scan of the letter yet!). However, as far as I know he has made the CWGc aware of the reference on this form, and at present is probably trying to get the enquiry into the "correct channel".

I think the question I am attempting to find is more of a "is there a correct method of doing this that will get the question in front of the right people". I suspect that although the CWGC have plenty of general enquiries from people about men on memorials and what grave they may have, I would suspect that they don't get too many asking them to review a specific grave - at least about graves other than that of Mannock....

Steve.

[Ken Lees]

I have a project ongoing which I hope will culminate in the CWGC putting a name on a currently un-named headstone and when I queried the evidence required to convince them of my case, one of the replies I received contained the following:

"If you believe your information is strong enough to confirm identities in these cases, then please note, the Commission is not responsible for the identification of unidentified servicemen. This is the responsibility of the appropriate service authorities, which in the case of British soldiers, is the UK Ministry of Defence. However, if you send our Records Section copies of all the information you have regarding these graves, we will look at it and see if there is sufficient evidence to warrant identification cases."

That was from the Archives Supervisor.

I hope that helps.

Ken

[Stebie9173]

Thanks Ken and Tom,

I will have to see what progress has been made when next I get to the meeting. I just thought I would ask to see what else could be done should the original approach prove to be "blocked". As far as I am aware the initial approach is proving a little less than easy.

Steve.

[John_Hartley]

Steve

Ken's information at post #8 is the key bit. I had what I thought was clear cut information to identify a flyer originally buried by the Germans. But the MoD had its own information source from the Grave Registration Unit that had details of the uniform worn which meant it could not have been my man (body was wearing officer's uniform but my man was a sergeant).

I would have thought that the form still with the family should be sufficient evidence - assuming that the grave indicated on the form is, in fact, a "not indentified" burial.

John

[Stebie9173]

Unsurprisingly the man I am helping with is a Northamptonshire Regiment man - the grave apparently says he is "An Unknown Soldier of the Northamptonshire Regiment".

Steve.

[Andrew P]

Unfortunately the CWGC no longer has the burial returns for Adelaide Cemetery at V-B. I was investigating a similar case where an Australian soldier was buried in Adelaide British Cemetery with the photographs being sent to the next of kin. However a few years after this the war graves authorities appeared to 'misplace' his grave and so he is only commmemorated on the Villers-Bretoneux Memorial.