Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Newbury War Memorial - Hamblin


Phil Wood

Recommended Posts

On the Newbury war memorial is the name P Hamblin, who I believe to be Philemon Francis W Hamblin, born in Newbury in 1896.

His entry on the CWGC database is a recent addition (Pte 210374, Hants Regt, died 5 Nov 1919). Is there anyone here who was involved with his addition to the database, or anyone who knows more about his military career and death than the information at the CWGC or his medal index card?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks - I have plenty of family information - there are a number of Philemons.

The IFCP data (thanks) adds a little to what I knew - that he died of pneumonia at sea.

His number was 201374 - can this be used to determine when he enlisted (I have evidence he was in the Hants Regt by Dec 1915). The 2/4 Batt left for India in Dec 1914 - would Philemon been with them by then?

From what I can find of the history of the 2/4 Batt of the Hants Regt it was demobilised in March 1919, leaving only a small cadre - was he one of the few left? If so how would he have been selected? Or was he transferred to another battalion that was not demobbed until later?

He died at sea - on a channel crossing? Or was he left behind in (for instance) an Egyptian hospital when the 2/4 Batt transferred to France in 1918?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know if it helps or muddies things further, but another Hampshire Regiment man died on that very same date:

Sheviocke War Memorial:

PEARN Charles. (probably Charles Henry Pearn) Private 05694, 20th Battalion, Hampshire Regiment. Died 5th November 1919. Aged 32. Son of Robert and Edith Pearn, of Tregorrick, St. Austell, Cornwall; husband of Lillian Maud Pearn, of 16, Church St., St. Blazey, Cornwall. Buried in ABBEVILLE COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION, Somme, France. Plot V. Row H. Grave 5.

Now Abbeville is NEAR the Channel coast, could there have been some mishap, such as falling overboard whilst boarding a ferry or some such similar incident?

Of course, he was 20th Battalion, so could be completely unrelated except for the coincidence of the date.

If he was diagnosed as suffering from pneumonia (not Influenza, which was carrying off thousands at this time) AND buried at sea, it sounds as if he was on a longer voyage than just cross Channel, when I'd assume they would have brought his body ashore at whichever port they arrived at).

Sorry if it's of no help....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His number was 201374 - can this be used to determine when he enlisted

Phil

The number 201374 would indicate he was 4th Battalion and had had an earlier 1908 series Territorial number. By looking at men with similar numbers you get

201370 Wheeler Bertie - ex 3745

201371 Robinson John H - ex 3746

201372 ?

201373 Goddard Charles J

201374 Hamblin

201375 Pressley Lohan R V- ex 3752

201376 ?

201377 Piper George

201378 Bone Arthur

201379 Redman Leonard W

Thus his original number would have been 3749, 3750 or 3751

You might get a better fix by searching ancestry as these would all have enlisted about the same time, but my guess would be

November/December 1914

The Hampshires had a very good magazine which gives all this sort of info - I'll have a look when next I get the chance

regards

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The number 201374 would indicate he was 4th Battalion and had had an earlier 1908 series Territorial number. By looking at men with similar numbers you get

...

Thanks John. Philemon would have been 18 (just) in Nov 1914 - would he really have served before this? In 1911 he was a draper's apprentice.

He was (according to his m.i.c. & CWGC) 2nd/4th Battalion and would, presumably, have gone with them to India in Dec 1914 - a matter of days after signing up.

His death (and burial?) at sea in Nov 1919 would make more sense if he was 1st/4th as they were still in action in Persia in 1919 - after the 2nd/4th were demobbed.

Phil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I can find of the history of the 2/4 Batt of the Hants Regt it was demobilised in March 1919, leaving only a small cadre - was he one of the few left? If so how would he have been selected? Or was he transferred to another battalion that was not demobbed until later?

He died at sea - on a channel crossing? Or was he left behind in (for instance) an Egyptian hospital when the 2/4 Batt transferred to France in 1918?

Phil,

Why not drop the IFCP team a line via Terry or John and ask them to put you in contact with Ivan Walchester (the volunteer who put him forward), he might have some more information

Grant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know if it helps or muddies things further, but another Hampshire Regiment man died on that very same date:

...

I suspect it's just a coincidence of date - but thanks for the input.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks John. Philemon would have been 18 (just) in Nov 1914 - would he really have served before this? In 1911 he was a draper's apprentice.

He was (according to his m.i.c. & CWGC) 2nd/4th Battalion and would, presumably, have gone with them to India in Dec 1914 - a matter of days after signing up.

His death (and burial?) at sea in Nov 1919 would make more sense if he was 1st/4th as they were still in action in Persia in 1919 - after the 2nd/4th were demobbed.

Phil

Phil

it was the series of numbers that started in 1908. It had reached around 2500 ny the start of the war. and it looks as if he joined up as soon as he was 18 in Nov/Dec 1914 I would doubt very much whether a new rercruit would have been sent overseas within days of joining up - more likely he went to the depot of the 4th Bn at Winchester and was assigned to the 2nd/4th after about 3 months and then sent to India - he could well have stayed on at Alexandria in May 1918 with another unit - The NA transcription of the medal card has his number wrong - they give 210374 - which could indicate he was not actually with his regiment when the war ended - could he have been in hospital in Alexandria and then died on his way home. - But it is all speculation unless you can find his service record.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I have found a newspaper item on Philemon Hamblin's death that casts serious doubt on the CWGC listing (and his death certificate) in that it makes it pretty clear that he was 1/4th Hants, not 2/4th. I could take the 1/4th from the paper as a typo/error, but it also covers his employment as a dispatch rider attached to the 33rd Divisional (sic) Signals, which is, I believe, in error and should read 33rd Brigade Signals (1/4th Hants were in the 33rd Brigade). The 1/4th spent the war in the east, the 2/4th returned to the Western Front in 1916 - if he was 2/4th he would be very unlikely to die on a ship returning from India in 1919.

Newbury Weekly News, 20 November 1919 p5 - Newbury

Lance-Corpl Philemon Hamblin. – Mr and Mrs Hamblin, of Pound Street, received last week the distressing intelligence of the death of their son on his way from India. Deceased joined the colours in April, 1915, serving with the 1/4th Hants. He left for India in September, 1915, being then transferred to the 33rd Divisional Signals. Afterwards he became dispatch rider, a post which he carried out until his time came for demobilisation. Starting for home, he contracted pneumonia on the course of the voyage, and passed away on November, 5th, 1919. The news was communicated to his parents from Port Said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strictly speaking the signal company was at the divisional level, and known by that name, but sections were attached to each brigade. So a man I've researched was 24th Divisional Signal Company, attached 72 Infantry Brigade, so it could well have got mangled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Did you try to get hold of Ivan, via the IFCP (post #7) ?

He would have had to collect and submit quite a few records for the CWGC entry to go ahead

Grant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you try to get hold of Ivan, via the IFCP (post #7) ?

Hi Grant,

Philemon was one of the straightforward IFCP cases - his death was registered in the army deaths register - proving he died in service. Terry did let me have a scan of the death certificate (belated public thanks Terry).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...