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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Very STRANGE FIND at Broodseinde ridge


bkristof

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Has anyone else noticed anything about Kristof's other badge - What's an Australian *Commonwealth* Military Forces badge doing at Broodseinde? I thought that the Australian Imperial Forces in WW1 wore an AIF capbadge. So was this lost on some later memorial parade?

Stuart

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Spot on Desmond. My family were Methodists.

So Kristof, it seems as though we are looking for an Australian non-conformist, with trouser difficulties. Always assuming that the items are related.

I do have another camp (in the true meaning of the word - nothing to do with the Ebay item) photo which is labelled B.L.B. 1913. Perhaps this is the 'Life Boys' which George has mentioned.

Kate

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The Aussie "Commonwealth" title on the badge was worn on both the cap and in smaller version on the collar. The word "Commonwealth" was dropped in 1948.

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Has anyone else noticed anything about Kristof's other badge - What's an Australian *Commonwealth* Military Forces badge doing at Broodseinde? I thought that the Australian Imperial Forces in WW1 wore an AIF capbadge. So was this lost on some later memorial parade?

Stuart

that is the normal collar badge..

There was a big battle here the 4th october 1917

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Spot on Desmond. My family were Methodists.

So Kristof, it seems as though we are looking for an Australian non-conformist, with trouser difficulties. Always assuming that the items are related.

Maybe these two pieces are all that remains of a "Hate Belt"?

Out of interest, what is the closest that the Glasgow Boys Brigade battalion of the HLI ever got to the spot where these items were found?

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passchendaele? or Zonnebeke?

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Pals one of the churches that I am researching has a memorial plaque to THE CHURCH LADS BRIGADE.The church is CHURCH OF ENGLAND.ST AMBROSE EAST BRISTOL.I is also unusual in that it contains a name of one who did not die in WW1.The person concererned is however a VC.Frederick Room was a local lad and is buried in the local cemetery.My filling system has broken down and I cannot find the relivant documents.In truth I am so disorganised that it is a wonder that I can find anything.I will do a search to find this information and will post the list asap.

CHEERS.

JOHN. :D

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Unless you know the archaeological context there is nothing to establish that the buckle is from the Great War period.

Clive is of course absolutely right here. We might still date it to the period on stylistic grounds but please don't forget the 90 year gap between 1914 and 2004.

You're all most likely right to date it to WWI period but we really must be careful about context. A cautionary note rather than an admonishment.

The scouts visited the Western Front in large numbers in the 1920's/30's, did this lot do the same?

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I am sure that Simon and Clive are right to add a note of caution because this buckle could have been dropped at any time. The metal looks in better condition than some of the recent finds from WW1 on the battlefields.

I stick to my point about the rarity of holidays abroad. I was actually the first person in my family to visit the Western Front and that only happened this year. My father's first holiday abroad was in 1953 and that was to Paris, a usual destination for 'trip'buses.

Kate

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It is copper / brass.

and i can tell you this: clay preserves well. It is not strange to find shining copper cardridges.

But anyhow, the object is quite "rusted" (or oxidated) so it has been in the ground for a very long time. I still believe it is WW1.

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Kristof

I tend to agree with you and I have certainly got a lot of information from this thread.

David - what a good picture of the Boys Brigade bugler. I wonder if those uniforms were black.

Kate

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My grandfather was in the Boys Brigade in Broken Hill in Australia. They had a rack of rifles and when some Afghans attacked the 'picnic train'he remembered them being served out to the posse which went out to deal with them. He was an Anglican. He also claimed to have learnt Ju Jitsu there and I can remember being thrown over his shoulder as a lad. From Kristof's point of view this could offer the chance that the two badges were connnected but it would require a lot more evidence to really link them.

Greg

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My grandfather was in the Boys Brigade in Broken Hill in Australia. They had a rack of rifles and when some Afghans attacked the 'picnic train'he remembered them being served out to the posse which went out to deal with them.

I`ve studied my world map closely, Greg, but I still can`t work out how Afghans attacked a picnic outing from Broken Hill! Was it Al Quaida? Phil B

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Guest Bernie nor

The belt buckle displayed probably belonged to an Australian digger who fought at Broodseinde on about 4 Oct 1917. The "Boys brigade" is an organisation similar to the Boy Scouts and has been in Australia for a long time - it still exists here in Australia today.

My father's first cousin, CAPT Tom Godfrey MC, was a company commander in the 24th Battalion, Australian Imperial Forces. He was killed at Broodseinde on 4 Oct 1917. He was Aunty Mill's only child - she wore black for the rest of her life, with the battalion colours on her lapel. I have Tom's MC - my children proudly wear it every Anzac Day. The owner of the belt buckle may have been one of his diggers.

May he, and all the rest of the poor blokes who died there, on both sides, rest in peace.

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  • 1 month later...
I`ve studied my world map closely, Greg, but I still can`t work out how Afghans attacked a picnic outing from Broken Hill! Was it Al Quaida? Phil B

Phil: Here is a good description of the incident. Afghans, I think, were ex mine workers, Broken Hill being a mining town. Happened in January 1915 so chances of Al Queda involvment not so high :)

http://amol.org.au/guide/stories/turks/index.html

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As an ex 27th Coy Glasgow Battalion Boys Brigade Member we to wear our school jackets ( in those days they were back or navy blue) with dark trousers. The belt buckle was brass and always had to be well bulled up when worn and the white bands of the `Pill box' hat were to be blanko'd and the numerals polished. To the best of my knowledge the belt buckle never changed in design.

As younger boys we were in the life boys and wore a sailors hat and a corse black woolen pullover with a brass badge. When promoted you got a white lanyard and then a white cover for your hat - boy did you feel good in that. :rolleyes:

The actions of the H.L.I Battalin raised from members and ex members of Glasgow BB Companies is well worth reading - I wish I had a copy but it is highly prized.

It would be nice to think an ex boy thought enough to wear it into battle - I hope he survived.

Fred

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We will never know...

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Fred,

Stop bringing back happy,innocent days!.

The Box,Parallel Bars,Drill,Camp in ex-Army Bell Tents(always in a field that had previously been habitated by sheep!)

My abiding memory of The Boys Brigade,waiting to to into the local School Hall on a Friday Night for Parade and being told of Kennedy's assassination.

George(53rd Aberdeen Company)

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George

That is a friday night that also sticks in my memory also although for perhaps not the best of reasons. It's a bit juvenile I know but back then we were were Juvenile (My excuse) and my abiding memory is being hacked off that they had taken my then favourite programme off the telly to deal with the momenous situation as it broke.

Funny thing though - I still like sheep! :D

Fred

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The Boys Brigade uniform was and still is, designed to go around ordinary clothes. In fact, when I was in the BB in the 1950s/60s there was an admonishment in the handbook that when buying a suit (those were the days for 11 year olds) you should remember to buy one of a dark colour to fit with the uniform.

I wore mine over my school uniform usually.

I would guess that here the man had taken the buckle with him as it is. Otherwise, surely some of the leather would have survived. He may even have really been switched on. That buckle is absolutely accidentally purpose designed for use as a bottle opener - as is the Scout buckle. I once went to a reception at the European parliament with a Scout group and the host MEP discovered that whilst there was food and drink in plenty, there was no opener.

He and the other MEPs were utterly astounded when, as one, the Scouts undid their buckles and opened the bottles for them.

If he survived, I'll be he swore when he found that he had lost the opener!

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Another good thing about the BB.

In the Lifeboys I had to wear short trousers,I think we all had to in Scotland until we went to Secondary School.Was it something to do with continually falling off push-bikes or some other scrapes?

Great when I joined the BB.Was able to wear long trousers.As healdav says as part of school uniform.Push-bike still formed a great part of my life but possibly my Parents thought I was a bit more sensible.They did get worried though when motor-bikes entered the equation.Who else scrambled a BSA Bantam in the 1960's.

George

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Who else scrambled a BSA Bantam in the 1960's.

George

i had a 125, but always wanted 175. it was the last bike that i could actually fix with a screwdriver and an adjustable spanner :lol:

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Hi Kristoff

The Boys Brigade did form a Service Battalion in Glasgow, the 16th HLI (Boys Brigade) as did Glasgow Tramway drivers, the 15th HLI (Glasgow Tramways), also the 17th HLI (Chamber of Commerce) and the 18th HLI (Bantams - approx 5 feet tall).

The City of Glasgow Corporation raised the 9th HLI (The Glasgow Highlanders - Lowland Division).

All of these battalions were raised in Glasgow and the term Highland Light Infantry is a wee bit misleading as they were lowlanders, some of them (9th in particular who had never worn a kilt before - except at a wedding).

The Boys Brigade were really you could view as part of the Glasgow 'Pals' Battalions, so it might be possible that your find is part of their uniform, I would not know for sure.

Sunflower ;)

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