Tom W. Posted 21 December , 2011 Share Posted 21 December , 2011 Joe Lunn's Memoirs of the Maelstrom: A Senegalese Oral History of the First World War (Portsmouth, NH: Heinemann, 1999) is unforgettable and unique. He interviewed elderly veterans or their children and describes the political and cultural aspects of colonial troops fighting for the country that oppressed them. Men who'd never seen two-story building were shipped to France and used as assault troops for the most dangerous missions, suffering a casualty rate twice that of white French soldiers. But Lunn doesn't have an axe to grind. He lets the facts speak for themselves and allows both sides to present their best arguments. The book contains maps, tables, photographs, and is extensively footnoted. It has an extremely comprehensive bibliography. A great companion book would be John W. Thomason, Jr.'s, Fix Bayonets! (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1919), a classic account of unrelenting combat by a U.S. Marine. His drawings of Senegalese troops are incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 21 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 21 December , 2011 Another Thomason sketch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 21 December , 2011 Admin Share Posted 21 December , 2011 Some years ago I used to visit a veteran of the Drake Btn who had served on Gallipoli. He always said that the Senegalise soldiers had a funny walk......... Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 22 December , 2011 Share Posted 22 December , 2011 The principal reason why German troops feared the Senegalese was that they rarely took prisoners, and committed other atrocities, also on French civilians in WW I. Sliding briefly OT time-wise, a friend of mine, a Marine on a study commission sent to Indo-China by Eisenhower, personally saw French officers using Senegalese to torture Vietnamese civilians, and he told me that he saw French Foreign Legionaires who were Waffen-SS veterans vomit at the sight of what the Senegalese did, under orders from their officers. (I wonder what the French were thinking when they allowed an American study commission to see that. The study commission did not report back to Washington in a way positive to France, and some hoped-for assistance for the French in Indo-China was not supplied.) In his very interesting book Rhineland Journal, by the US General Allen, CO of the American Zone of Occupation in Germany after WW I, he states that the very use of such Colonial troops in Europe (and the way that they were officered) was a war crime. I can offer a lot of detail and specifics, but I would rather not. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 23 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2011 The principal reason why German troops feared the Senegalese was that they rarely took prisoners, and committed other atrocities, also on French civilians in WW I. Both the Germans and the Allies mounted propaganda campaigns to depict African soldiers as merciless barbarians. The Germans did so to keep the French and British from infusing hundreds of thousands of troops into the western front, claiming it breached "international law," and the Allies did so to scare the hell out of the Germans. http://tinyurl.com/8xjvq2z French civilians were initially terrified that African troops were drunken, murderous rapists, but after years of interacting with colonial troops based in France during the war and seeing that widespread atrocities did not occur, these fears subsided. Some of the more virulent atrocity stories actually began emerging during the postwar French occupation of the Rhineland and were part of a concerted German effort to discredit the occupiers. The stories of ear and finger necklaces, wholesale decapitations, eyeball extraction, and the refusal to take prisoners date from this period. A lot of them also come from French and British sources opposed to the use of colonials. There's no actual evidence that African colonial troops committed atrocities at a higher rate than white European troops. It's also likely that many of the German claims were a response to Allied claims that Germans cut off the hands of women and children in Belgium, practiced cannibalism, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 Lunn wrote an fascinating article for the Journal of Contemporary History in 1999: 'Les Races Guerrières': Racial Preconceptions in the French military about West African Soldiers during the First World War. His conclusions about relative casualty rates compared to Metropolitan French soldiers are quite damning especially when set against some of the quotes from Gen Mangin earlier in the article. Len Shurtleff has also written an interesting article on the subject: http://www.worldwar1.com/france/tseng.htm although his conclusions about casualty rates have been overtaken by Lunn's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 At the risk of seeming rather prurient, I would be interested in finding out about the French attitude towards Senegalese when it came to access to brothels. Fighting with white people is one thing, fornicating another. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 23 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2011 Lunn wrote an fascinating article for the Journal of Contemporary History in 1999: 'Les Races Guerrières': Racial Preconceptions in the French military about West African Soldiers during the First World War. His conclusions about relative casualty rates compared to Metropolitan French soldiers are quite damning especially when set against some of the quotes from Gen Mangin earlier in the article. Len Shurtleff has also written an interesting article on the subject: http://www.worldwar1.com/france/tseng.htm although his conclusions about casualty rates have been overtaken by Lunn's work. The salient point Lunn makes is that the Africans were used as assault troops for only about two years. Therefore when most French historians point out that the overall percentage of dead and wounded white and black French combat infantrymen was similar, that doesn't take into account the fact that the Africans suffered that similar casualty rate while serving only half the time in combat. If you extrapolate the African casualty rate out to four years, it's twice that of white combat infantrymen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 23 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2011 At the risk of seeming rather prurient, I would be interested in finding out about the French attitude towards Senegalese when it came to access to brothels. Fighting with white people is one thing, fornicating another. The story of Eugene Jacques Bullard, one of only two black fliers in World War I, indicates that white French women were quite accepting of black men, while white French men had more of a problem. Bullard stayed on in France after the war rather than return to the U.S. The biography of the American dancer-singer Ada Beatrice Queen Victoria Louise Virginia Smith, nicknamed "Bricktop," indicates that when she ran her nightclub in Paris in the 1920s, occasionally there were fights between white Frenchmen and black American ex-servicemen, including Eugene Bullard, who was the club bouncer, I think. Many of the colonial troops were devout Muslims, so I wonder if they would've gone to brothels all that often. I've seen photos of Senegalese smoking cigarettes, which is haraam in Islam, so maybe they did adopt other western vices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 A purely anecdotal comment - within West Africa, the Senegalese have a reputation as fearsome soldiers. I taught in Cameroon during the 1970s and if I put my foot down about something, or acted in a way that might be considered draconian, some wit was sure to shout 'Senegalese!' and the rest would all roar with laughter. Of course, attitudes may have been influenced by colonial war stories as much as, or more than, local ones. In precolonial times Cameroonians in the inland 'Grassfields' , where I was, wouldn't have had contact with Senegalese. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 Thanks, Tom, Now you mention it, I remember seeing some centenarian black US veteran being interviewed in a TV documentary about the Great War, and he was visibly still enjoying his memory of the inordinately warm welcome that French women gave to him and his black brothers in arms. There is, I think, a big difference between the way these men were perceived and the Senegalese, who were seen as not only black, but also as"savages" from the jungle. The French women seemed to view American black men as sexy, but civilised. Perhaps French men took the same view of Josephine Baker in the post war years. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 23 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2011 There is, I think, a big difference between the way these men were perceived and the Senegalese, who were seen as not only black, but also as"savages" from the jungle. It's very complicated. The African troops who occupied the Rhineland fathered hundreds of children who became known as the "Rhineland ********." Hitler even mentioned them in Mein Kampf, raving about contamination "by Negro blood on the Rhine in the heart of Europe." The Nazis eventually sterilized all these half-caste children to prevent any kind of Afro-Germanic culture from arising. In the 1920s the U.S. senate even investigated the phenomenon of German women being impregnated by African occupation troops and concluded that it was consensual and not the result of rape. These were Africans, not American blacks, yet good German girls were choosing to liaise with them. I think it's safe to say that the European attitude toward Africans in their midst was (and is?) complex. Josephine Baker was the first black megastar. Rigidly conformist or homogeneous societies often have a secret appetite for the exotic. Here's a somewhat not-safe-for-work coin minted in Germany as part of the propaganda effort to depict the African occupiers as ravenous, priapic beasts. Note what the poor naked German girl is chained to. It's not a tree. The writing on that side of the coin says "The Black dishonor." http://ma-shops.com/sesambestcoins/pic/49970.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 French recruitment was targeted at certain sections of the Senegalese population with a particular 'warrior' reputation and casualty rates amongst the men from these communities would have exceeded even the very high rates Lunn calculates for period 1916-18. He states: "it is probable that a Wolof, a ‘Tukulor’ or a Bambara recruited as a tirailleur between 1915 and 1917, for example, was about three times as likely to die in combat as his French counterpart." The relative casualties between Senegalese and Metropolitan French troops have to be looked at in terms of the period in which the West African soldiers mainly fought (not 14/15) and also the policy of 'Hivernage' which meant they were withdrawn from the line and sent to the South of France between November and March to save them from the especially inclement winters of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 The relative casualties between Senegalese and Metropolitan French troops have to be looked at in terms of the period in which the West African soldiers mainly fought (not 14/15) Is the implication here that - because French casualty rates were more extreme in 1914-15 than they were to be in the later part of the war - we are presented with rather schewed analysis ? Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 23 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2011 Is the implication here that - because French casualty rates were more extreme in 1914-15 than they were to be in the later part of the war - we are presented with rather schewed analysis ? Actually, the Africans served only as combat infantrymen, so the only casualties you can compare them to are the casualties of white combat infantrymen. All other branches of service or military occupations don't apply. Over the same number of days under fire, African casualties were roughly twice those of white combat infantrymen. The overall casualty rate between white and black combat infantrymen was comparable, but since the Africans only fought in large numbers for half as long as the whites, their casualty rate is much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 There is an interesting historiographical dimension to this. I allude here to the same discussions about the casualty rates suffered by black soldiers in the American Civil War. Some commentators will insist that black soldiers suffered disproportionatley heavy casualties ; others will argue that these are inflated claims inspired by an agenda about racism. The Germans remained obsessed about these Senegalese in the Second World War : recently a rather good TV documentary was broadcast featuring German footage of captured French soldiers in the summer of 1940 ; great emphasis was laid on the depiction of the black soldiers who were filmed slaughtering a goat and performing a kind of ritual dance, with the German narrator reminding us that this was the kind of civilisation that the Allies were fighting for. Apart from casualty rates, it would be interesting to learn about the diet of the Senegalese, and the general care that they experienced when they were not in the frontline. And were they officered by white Frenchmen who were selected on account of special skills ? For a British officer to command Gurkhas - and other Indian troops - special knowledge and understanding were essential. and these officers were something of an elite in terms of eucation and experience. And what of the NCOs in the Senegalese regiments ? Were any of them black ? I wonder if the French have - or had - a Joanna Lumley equivalent : celebrated warriors from far flung Imperial possessions excite symapthy and fascination, even if it smacks of condescension. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 Is the implication here that - because French casualty rates were more extreme in 1914-15 than they were to be in the later part of the war - we are presented with rather schewed analysis ? Nothing skewed as far as I can see. For the period 16-18 a Senegalese infantryman of a certain ethnic group was three times more likely to be killed than a white French infantryman during the same period. Casualty rates in 14-15 are irrelevant. They are based on a year by year analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 The French African troops performed as well as any other body of troops & as stated their casualties were very high. As for their tendency for rape during the occupation of the Rhineland, they were less guilty than their white counterparts. Moving to WW2 , "Auchonvillers" was the German reply to their hatred of the Colonial troops, as for rape they were no worse than the American troops of which little is said. Were you aware that the French Division which entered Paris on the day of liberation was denuded of Black (if I may use the term)troops at the behest of the Allied High Command. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 It is well to remember that we are dealing with attitudes of nearly one hundred years ago. As I understand it some negro regiments fought under French command during part of WW1 and were content as they were allowed to fight in a frontline role, in contrast to their treatment under US command, where they were allocated to seondary support duties. In the context of the time would the warrior Senegalese have preferred another role ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 I wonder if the French have - or had - a Joanna Lumley equivalent : celebrated warriors from far flung Imperial possessions excite symapthy and fascination, even if it smacks of condescension. The French film 'Indigènes' (English title 'Days of Glory') is about Algerian volunteers in WW2 and played a part in the eventually successful campaign for proper pensions for the surviving veterans. Were all those who served as Tirailleurs sénégalais in WW1 necessarily Senegalese? I seem to recall reading that they were drawn from various 'martial' tribes/clans, not all of which actually came from Senegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 Black (if I may use the term) It'll be a damned sad day when you may not use that term, Colin. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 23 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2011 As I understand it some negro regiments fought under French command during part of WW1 and were content as they were allowed to fight in a frontline role, in contrast to their treatment under US command, where they were allocated to secondary support duties. The all-black 92nd Infantry Division--the 365th, 366th, 367th, and 368th Infantry Regiments--fought under American command, while the 93rd Infantry Division (Colored)--369th, 370th, 371st, and 372nd Regiments--fought under French command and were issued French helmets, weapons, and equipment. The 369th--the "Harlem Hellfighters"--spent the most time under combat of any American regiment and was the most highly decorated. Pvt. Henry Lincoln Johnson was the first American soldier to be awarded the Croix de Guerre, after he and Pvt. Needham Roberts fought off a 24-man German raiding party, being seriously wounded in the process after they ran out of ammunition. Roberts used his rifle as a club while Johnson used a bolo knife against Germans armed with rifles, automatic pistols, and hand grenades. The 369th never lost a man taken prisoner; two men were captured by the Germans but the unit sent out a raiding party and recovered them. The regiment also never failed to take an objective except for once, when French artillery support didn't materialize, and it never lost any ground. As a side note, the regimental band, led by composer Lt. James Reese Europe, is credited with introducing jazz to Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 24 December , 2011 Share Posted 24 December , 2011 Here's a high school project about minorities in Porz, which includes brief sections on colonial prisoners and occupation troops in the district: http://www.minorities.mkg-koeln.de/starte.htm Some of the information is taken from this page: http://www.kopfwelten.org/kp/begegnung/wahn/ A brief discussion on a French website: http://www.rfi.fr/tirailleurs/20100329-honte-noire-die-schwarze-schande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 24 December , 2011 Share Posted 24 December , 2011 Query: Sources for Study of Black Soldiers in the Rhineland in the Weimar Republic January 1996 Submitted by: Marion F. Deshmukh (mdeshmuk@VMS1.GMU.EDU) A colleague of mine is in the final stages of completing a biography of the African American intellectual Alain Locke. Locke spent considerable time in Germany and Austria during the first decades of the 20th century. Apparently he was commissioned to write a report on German complaints of French-African soldiers for the League of Nations or some other organization in 1922-23. He wrote a series of pieces for a journal named "Opportunity." My colleague (Jeffrey Stewart) was wondering if there are some articles and monographs on the subject of black soldiers in the Rhineland during Weimar and if there is additional information which would shed light on why an American would be commissioned to write on this topic. Whatever help the list members could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Marion Deshmukh George Mason University Fairfax, VA 22030 (703) 993-2149 e: mail-mdeshmuk@gmu.edu Submitted by: Michael Kater (mkater@YorkU.CA) The best article I know on the subject is by Sally Marks, "Black Watch on the Rhine: A Study in Propaganda, Prejudice and Prurience," European Studies Review 13 (1983), 297-334. George L. Mosse has written on several aspects of this issue in various of his publications, but I do not know of a full-scale monograph on this very important topic. I have a little bit on this in my Different Drummers book, as far as popular culture was concerned. In Germany, Reiner Pommerin has written about it from a medical-eugenic point of view in his book, "STERILISIERUNG DER RHEINLANDBASTARDE": DAS SCHICKSAL EINER FARBIGEN DEUTSCHEN MINDERHEIT," 1918-1937, Düsseldorf: Droste, 1979. More literature there and in Marks. Michael H. Kater York University Toronto, Ontario, Canada Submitted by: Raffael Scheck (rmscheck@COLBY.EDU) The German government, supported by most Reichstag parties, filed a complaint with the League of Nations in reaction to some cases of rape and murder by France's African occupation troops. I do not know why Alain Locke as an American citizen wrote this report, but the United States probably were interested in the allegations because American troops occupied a neighboring Rhineland zone. The German charges were exaggerated and blind to the fact that the Africans behaved better than the soldiers from France. I think the most useful source for your friend is an article by Gisela Lebzelter: "Die 'Schwarze Schmach': Vorurteile - Propaganda - Mythos." In Geschichte und Gesellschaft 11 (1 1985): 37-58. To find about about the French rationale for employing colonial troops in Germany I recommend Marc Michel, "Colonisation et défense nationale. Le Général Mangin et la force noire." In Guerres mondiales et conflits contemporains 37 (145 1987): 27-44. Easy to read with a dictionary is Th. J. Hooning, "De 'Zwarte Smaad' en zijn gevolgen." Spiegel Historiael 17 (1 1982): 8-12. Rainer Pommerin published a book on the sterilization of mixed-race children from the Rhineland (Sterilisierung der Rheinlandbastarde. Das Schicksal einer farbigen Minderheit 1918-1937. Duesseldorf: 1979.). Raffael Scheck, Colby College Submitted by: Michael Kater (mkater@YorkU.CA) A poststcript to my earlier note, in view of Raffael Scheck's recent posting: "African" soldiers stationed in the Rhineland area by the French would have meant Senegalese (who, if I recall corerectly, according to some treaty clauses, were not supposed to be there). In fact, the proportion of "black" soldiers among the occupying French was very small, many of those actually not being Senegalese at all, but darkish Arabs from Morocco, etc. A considerable percentage was from French-ruled Indochina, which would have made them look more like the Chinese. It was a point purposely ignored by Nazi propagandists, who, like Hitler in his speeches of the time, acted as if they were all Blacks from Africa bent on raping German girls and women. Just another ploy by the Nazis to gain power. Michael H. Kater York University Toronto, Ontario, Canada Submitted by: Gerhard Weinberg (gweinber@email.unc.edu) There is a book by Reiner Pommerin and there was an article by Sally Marks in the Journal of Modern History or the Journal of Contemporary History, both with lots of notes to the very extensive literature on this subject. Gerhard Weinberg Submitted by: Gerald R. Kleinfeld (Kleinfeld@asu.edu) There is also an article on black soldiers in the Rhineland in the GERMAN STUDIES REVIEW in 1978. http://www.h-net.org/~german/discuss/other/osoby.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 24 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 24 December , 2011 Were all those who served as Tirailleurs sénégalais in WW1 necessarily Senegalese? I seem to recall reading that they were drawn from various 'martial' tribes/clans, not all of which actually came from Senegal. They were recruited from all over Africa, but were called "Tirailleurs Sénégalais" because Senegal was where the first such unit was raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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