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Lancashire Fusilier

WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

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Lancashire Fusilier

the image you supplied is one of the Ruston models I believe!! The jewel in the crown so to speak is a 4th model which was a box shaped steel water tank sitting and support equipment/binning on a steel frame with closed, disc steel wheels and a single draw bar with eye - obvioulsy well suited for travel behind a lorry

Rod,

Pleased to hear of confirmation that Ruston, Procter & Co., made British Army metal water tanks.

Looking through my photographs of Water Carts, I did find an interesting uncommon variation of Water Cart which has the features you describe minus the steel disc wheels, it is shown on the left in a Turkish photograph taken of 2 Water Carts abandoned by the British on Gallipoli in December 1915. As the photograph was taken on Gallipoli, the Water Cart could also have been in service with the Australian Forces.

Regards,

LF

AWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The jewel in the crown so to speak is a 4th model which was a box shaped steel water tank sitting and support equipment/binning on a steel frame with closed, disc steel wheels and a single draw bar with eye - obvioulsy well suited for travel behind a lorry etc.

Rod,

This could be your elusive ' Water Trailer ', photographed in the village of Dommiers in the Aisne region of Picardy.

The photo is captioned as being a ' Water Trailer ', which has the metal road wheels and the metal draw bar for towing behind a lorry.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

British soldiers from the North Russia Expeditionary Force in Archangel, Russia, with a British Army Water Cart, which interestingly, is marked with the ' six-legged wheel ' insignia of the British 67th Division.

Also shown in the photograph, is a soldier from the Slavo-British Legion attached to the N.R.E.F. ( 4th soldier from the left )

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

British 67th Division Emblem.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Dave1418

Hi all, the RW Kent living history society are in the process of renovating such an item of equipment at the moment and I'm sure they'll have photos of its restoration.

regards

Dave

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Lancashire Fusilier

Hi all, the RW Kent living history society are in the process of renovating such an item of equipment at the moment and I'm sure they'll have photos of its restoration.

regards

Dave

Dave,

I may have read somewhere that the restoration was finished, as I know I have a photograph of a fairly recently restored British Army Water Cart.

Regards,

LF

Edit - This may not of course be the same restored Water Cart, nevertheless, a fine restoration job.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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BSM

Rod,

This could be your elusive ' Water Trailer ', photographed in the village of Dommiers in the Aisne region of Picardy.

The photo is captioned as being a ' Water Trailer ', which has the metal road wheels and the metal draw bar for towing behind a lorry.

Regards,

LF

Thanks for posting LF but unfortunately not so. However it is certainly an interesting image. The trailer is very similar to the RFC type used to carry/recover aircraft per the attached image of a recently built replica by Tom (aka Charawacky) on a UK Mil. Veh. Forum. He sent me this copy recently after a WW1 display in the UK. The wheels are in fact wooden construction. Assuming the trailers are one in the same model they were designed to be towed behing MT as you say. The wheels on the metal Ruskin type are solid steel discs with no spokes as such. The water container is square/rectangular. Back to the image in question (#2051) I would suggest that it is a field fabrication/load set up as opposed to a purpose built trailer for fluid transportation. Either way good to view as is the marking on the tail gate of the lorry which one can almost make out. From the dark stains around the taps one would suspect some type of chemical content and the head dress worn by the fellow at the rear raises a question or two! Rod

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phil@basildon

Thanks for posting LF but unfortunately not so. However it is certainly an interesting image. The trailer is very similar to the RFC type used to carry/recover aircraft per the attached image of a recently built replica by Tom (aka Charawacky) on a UK Mil. Veh. Forum. He sent me this copy recently after a WW1 display in the UK. The wheels are in fact wooden construction. Assuming the trailers are one in the same model they were designed to be towed behing MT as you say. The wheels on the metal Ruskin type are solid steel discs with no spokes as such. The water container is square/rectangular. Back to the image in question (#2051) I would suggest that it is a field fabrication/load set up as opposed to a purpose built trailer for fluid transportation. Either way good to view as is the marking on the tail gate of the lorry which one can almost make out. From the dark stains around the taps one would suspect some type of chemical content and the head dress worn by the fellow at the rear raises a question or two! Rod

Similar trailers were used in WW2, the one in the photograph could be WW2 vintage.

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MikeyH

August Issue 'Classic & Sportscar Magazine'

Unsure where I should post this, but the August issue of C. and S.Car features an interesting article on the 1918 Vauxhall D-Type Staff Car. The car is from the collection of Vauxhall Motors, and is pictured in a great two page spread outside the Cloth Hall in Ypres, then driven around the quiet roads to the north-east of the town amidst 3 military cemeteries. The writer comments favourably on the ride and cruising speed of the car, having sampled a friends 1912 A-Type 2 seater can confirm the running qualities of these durable Edwardian Vauxhalls.

Interestingly when the car was rescued from a scrapyard in 1946, it carried the faded WD serial number IC-0721, this was originally issued to one of 2 cars sent to Egypt in 1916, but the engine and gearbox date from 1918.

The 'Autocar' had a correspondent in Belgium in 1914, who commented 'We are on the eve of great events here, and those of us who remain will see much'.

Mike

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Rockdoc

Sorry to be so late in responding but I've been away for the last couple of weeks. The 'Stavros' line was used to transport supplies from the port of Scala Stavros to a dump at Kar Tasli Derbend, on the northern side of the Gulf of Orfano, now known as the Strymonian Gulf. The dump supplied the southern part of the Struma Valley Front. The line was intended to be standard gauge but the equipment was unavailable and Decauville equipment was.

Keith

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Lancashire Fusilier

Thanks for posting LF but unfortunately not so. However it is certainly an interesting image. The trailer is very similar to the RFC type used to carry/recover aircraft per the attached image of a recently built replica by Tom (aka Charawacky) on a UK Mil. Veh. Forum. He sent me this copy recently after a WW1 display in the UK. The wheels are in fact wooden construction. Assuming the trailers are one in the same model they were designed to be towed behing MT as you say. The wheels on the metal Ruskin type are solid steel discs with no spokes as such. The water container is square/rectangular. Back to the image in question (#2051) I would suggest that it is a field fabrication/load set up as opposed to a purpose built trailer for fluid transportation. Either way good to view as is the marking on the tail gate of the lorry which one can almost make out. From the dark stains around the taps one would suspect some type of chemical content and the head dress worn by the fellow at the rear raises a question or two! Rod

Rod,
I located the source of the photo, which was taken in May/June 1917, so it is definitely WW1.
The soldier front right wearing the helmet, is a member of the American Field Service ( A.F.S. ), hence the style of uniform. The A.F.S. was made up of American volunteers serving with the French Army, so the other two soldiers were probably from the French Army.
The report accompanying the photograph, relates to a ' Training Camp ' that was set up by the French Army at Dommiers, in the Aisne region of Picardy, N. France, to assist with the training of men to serve with the French ' Reserve Automobile '.
Initially, the water supply for the Camp came from a local spring, and the ' trailer ' shown in the photograph was used to carry water from the spring to the Camp, so the staining on the containers is certainly from the water being carried.
Here is the text relating to the photograph :-
" One thing was lacking, namely, water. As a result every day a "tank-trailer" was hauled one or more times, as necessity required, to the nearest spring, which was about six kilometres distant, to get a supply of water for drinking, cooking, and washing purposes. At first the capacity of the camp was small, but each unit which came enlarged and improved it until it was supposed to be sufficient for all needs. In spite of this development, however, only a month and a half after the inception of the camp, it was found necessary to organize a second one to care for the ever-increasing number of volunteers joining the Camion Service. "
So this is definitely a photo of a WW1 Water Tank Trailer, which could be of French or British military origin, as both Armies were active in the area, and was being used by the French Army.
In my experience, if something existed during WW1, there is a strong possibility that someone took a photo of it, so hopefully, a photo of the ' British Army Water Trailer ' will surface.
Regards,
LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

Similar trailers were used in WW2, the one in the photograph could be WW2 vintage.

Phil,

That particular ' Trailer ' was photographed in May/June 1917, so it is definitely WW1 vintage.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

Staying with the topic of ' Water Carriers ', back on June 8, post # 1917, I posted a photograph of an American made ' Autocar ' UF21 30 cwt truck transporting Canadian soldiers.

Attached are 2 photographs taken in France, of that same model Autocar UF21 chassis fitted out for the British Army as a Water Tanker. Several hundred of the American Autocar UF21s were purchased by the WD, of which a couple of hundred were converted to Water Tankers and sent to France.

The galvanised water tank was probably fitted in Britain, possibly by companies such as Clayton & Shuttleworth or Ruston, Procter & Co.

Due to the considerable weight of the water tank when filled, the rear tyres on the Water Tanker are solid rubber. The horse-drawn boiler style water tanks had a 108 gallon capacity, these Water Tanker vehicles have a larger water tank which looks to be a least double that water storage capacity.

LF

AWME05436 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Dave1418

Hi all,

post #2056 is I believe taken at Stow Maries, Essex as they have this combination there. Rob L who posts here does I'm sure have more photos if they are require.

regards

Dave

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Lancashire Fusilier

Unsure where I should post this, but the August issue of C. and S.Car features an interesting article on the 1918 Vauxhall D-Type Staff Car.

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the information on the Vauxhall D-Type Staff Car, which was probably the most prolific and popular of the British Staff Cars used in WW1.

Designed by Lawrence Pomeroy and developed from the superb 1910 Vauxhall ' Prince Henry ' sports car, the 25 hp Vauxhall D-Type first appeared in 1913.

Attached is a photo of a Vauxhall D-Type Staff Car taken in Arras, also a coloured photo of a restored Vauxhall D-Type which gives us the actual colouring of the Army Staff Car.

Regards,

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

A very nicely restored WW1 Vauxhall D-Type Staff Car.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The 'Stavros' line was used to transport supplies from the port of Scala Stavros to a dump at Kar Tasli Derbend, on the northern side of the Gulf of Orfano, now known as the Strymonian Gulf. The dump supplied the southern part of the Struma Valley Front. The line was intended to be standard gauge but the equipment was unavailable and Decauville equipment was.

Keith,

Many thanks for the information, it was interesting to note that both the ' Simplex ' Trench Tractor and the Decauville rails were used by the British Army in Salonika.

Any thoughts on the ' 1 EFC Salonika ' marking on the wooden shipping crate, I thought it may stand for ' First Expeditionary Force Salonika ' ?

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

post #2056 is I believe taken at Stow Maries, Essex as they have this combination there. Rob L who posts here does I'm sure have more photos if they are require.

Dave,

It would be nice to see any other photos of this trailer, perhaps Rob has some he could post ?

Regards,

LF

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RobL

Have plenty more (and spent a lot of that weekend loading/unloading the Pup from it) when I get a chance to upload them

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RobL

IMGP5211_zps8e2be1d3.jpg

Here's one I took at the Tanfield Railway when Tom brought it and the Crossley over back in March

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Rockdoc

Many thanks for the information, it was interesting to note that both the ' Simplex ' Trench Tractor and the Decauville rails were used by the British Army in Salonika.

Any thoughts on the ' 1 EFC Salonika ' marking on the wooden shipping crate, I thought it may stand for ' First Expeditionary Force Salonika ' ?

Both standard-gauge and Decauville lines were built by the British and French armies, depending on the terrain. The static nature of the warfare meant that the ability to move Decauville tracks quickly wasn't needed but they could use the characteristics of narrow-gauge lines to run through difficult country, though that certainly wasn't the reason why the Stavros line was built as the area travelled is pretty flat. The map HERE shows the Stavros line running from Skala Stavros to Kar Tasli Derbend, with a branch running towards Lake Besik. There's another line shown on the western edge of the map, running from Sarigol past Kukus to Kürküt and Gramatna. The map was a pre-War Austrian one, partially updated to 18th June 1917.

I don't know what 1 EFC stands for. The British contingent was always referred to as the British Salonika Force or BSF so the best I can offer is Expeditionary Force Canteen.

Keith

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David Filsell

Nice piece on the D Type Vauxhall IC 0721 in the August edition of Classic and Sports Car magazine out today.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Here's one I took at the Tanfield Railway when Tom brought it and the Crossley over back in March

Rob,

A very nice trailer, attached are 2 photographs of this type of trailer being used by the RFC/RAF.

The first photograph, shows an RFC Leyland lorry towing a trailer used to recover a damaged RE8 aircraft. Alongside the Leyland, is another empty trailer which gives us some excellent details of the trailer's design and construction.

Regards,

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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johnboy

A trailer at the French Salmson aircraft factory.

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Lancashire Fusilier

A photograph of an R.A.F. A-Type Leyland lorry towing a flat bed trailer.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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