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Lancashire Fusilier

WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

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Lancashire Fusilier

The original caption for this photograph was " the result of a direct hit on an ammunition lorry ".

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Looking at both photographs, I was interested in the metal engine ' tubes ' shown in the bottom right of the photograph in post # 825, which are also shown in post # 824, and they are the ' radiator water cooling pipes ', with that engine landing radiator down.

LF

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johnboy

The picture post# 825 seems to me to be a cannabilised vehicle. All the pipes and other cables seem to have been cut, not just torn out.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The picture post# 825 seems to me to be a cannabilised vehicle. All the pipes and other cables seem to have been cut, not just torn out.

I am sure you are correct, and after that vehicle was blown up and destroyed, any usable parts from it were salvaged. However, we can see how the force of the explosion would have caused the engine and front axle section to separate from the rest of the lorry, fly up/off and then crash down, embedding that section of the lorry in the ground radiator first.

In both cases # 824 and 825, the explosion separated the engine and front axle section from the rest of the vehicle.

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

Looking back at post # 551, which shows a mobile 13 pdr. Anti-Aircraft Gun emplacement, here is another photograph which appears to show that same AA Gun emplacement in action.

Post # 551 did not give a location, whereas this new photograph is captioned as being taken in the ' Western Desert '.

This is an excellent photograph detailing not just the Thornycroft Lorry mounted 13 pdr. Anti-Aircraft Gun, but also the spotting and range finding equipment.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

British 13 pounder Anti-Aircraft Gun silhouetted in action during the Battle of Broodseinde ( October 1917 ) part of a larger offensive - the third Battle of Ypres - Original caption reads: " Official Photograph Taken On The British Western Front. Battle of Broodseinde Ridge. Anti-aircraft gun in action during the battle. ( Silhouette taken near Frezenberg )."


LF



This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Rockdoc

That's an evocative photo! My first thought was that it was taken in low-light conditions but I'm coming to think this is a deliberate silhouette taken during the day. The light seems to be coming from over the gun through a break in the clouds and there's a flare at the bottom left that may be an aberration from the lens. I'm always cautious about accepting that any period photo is of a gun during an action unless the barrel is under recoil but the men are at their correct stations and the depth of field needed is limited so the aperture could be wide and shutter-speed could be fast enough to freeze their movement. My instinct is always that such photos are posed but this one might not be.

I wish I knew more (i.e. greater than zero) about the film and lenses of the period.

Keith

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Lancashire Fusilier

RFC unit loading a damaged aircraft onto a trailer, taking the aircraft to the the RFC repair depot.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

RFC aircraft repair depot, with mechanics working on various aircraft.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Damage to the aircraft was caused by various different reasons, here we see an RFC pilot emerging from his wrecked aircraft which had been forced to make a crash landing on the roof of a French house.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

That's an evocative photo! My first thought was that it was taken in low-light conditions but I'm coming to think this is a deliberate silhouette taken during the day.

Keith

Looks like it may have been taken at dusk, with a fading light.

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

The following photographs are from an intriguing set of photographs of a 3 wheeler motorcycle machine gun combination, the type of which I have never seen before.

The 3 wheeler shows no maker's marks, and has a British number plate ' AK 89 ', there are some markings in English on the rear of the machine referring to a ' Main Petrol Tap ' and a ' Reserve Petrol Tap '.

The machine is designed to carry and fire either a Maxim or Vickers machine gun, which could be either mounted at the front firing forward, mounted at the rear firing to the rear, or detached and mounted on a tripod. Both the machine gun and the tripod were stowed in compartments at the rear of the machine. Ammunition boxes are also stowed at the rear of the machine, also an additional ammunition box could be fitted into a compartment in front of the steering wheel to feed the front mounted machine gun.

The hammock style mesh seating, is of a highly advanced design, which could be adjusted to either have the seats facing forward or facing to the rear, in all an amazing and intriguing machine.

Perhaps, this was a prototype or an experimental machine.

LF

C/o IWM Q70506 - 13

These images is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.


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Lancashire Fusilier

A possible contender to be the maker of the amazing 3 wheeler machine gun carrier, was the Morgan Motor Company, who certainly had the experience and expertise to build such a 3 wheeler, having for many years produced excellent 3 wheeler vehicles including the superb 3 wheeler Morgan sports car made for Albert Ball, V.C.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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ifanlloyd

The pic on 833 is really interesting.If you look carefully there is a light railway running through the compound.

This thread is quite amazing any way. With the Austin armoured car has any one got details or a picture of the hatches on the turrets?

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Lancashire Fusilier

The pic on 833 is really interesting.If you look carefully there is a light railway running through the compound.

This thread is quite amazing any way. With the Austin armoured car has any one got details or a picture of the hatches on the turrets?

Thanks for pointing out those important light rail tracks. Either the site, which looks to also include aircraft hangers as well as the work shops, was chosen because it was situated alongside those tracks, or the light rails tracks were subsequently laid to service the site. Unfortunately, the photo caption does not give a location.

Here is a scale drawing for the Austin Armoured Car 2nd Series, which shows the turret's round hatches, I shall see if I have any other photos showing the hatches.

Please to hear you are enjoying this Thread.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

With the Austin armoured car has any one got details or a picture of the hatches on the turrets?

The drawing I posted was for the Austin Armoured Car 2nd Series, for the 3rd Series and the Model 1918, the turret hatches were different and were larger.

The turret hatch on the Model 1918 was almost the size of the complete turret round top, divided in two, with both halves hinged, so that one half of the circular hatch could be raised, or both halves could be raised.

LF

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Rockdoc

I think the trike is a Scott and is the military forerunner of the Sociable. CLICK.

Keith

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ifanlloyd

I have just found a scale drawing of a Peerless showing the hatches.As the body was the late 3 series Austin I take it that the hatches on this must (??) be OK for the Austin.

I was at Bovington last year,should have taken more pic's but I don't think I would have got permission to clambering on their Peerless !!!!

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Lancashire Fusilier

I think the trike is a Scott and is the military forerunner of the Sociable. CLICK.

Keith

Keith,

The ' Scott ' 3 wheeler was discussed in this Thread back in March 2012, and at the time there were no photographs available. However, your linking the 3 wheeler machine gun carrier to Scott's later ' Sociable ' vehicle certainly fits the bill, and gives us a name for the maker of the 3 wheeler machine gun carrier.

Attached is a photograph of Scott's later 3 wheeler ' Sociable ' and we can clearly see the resemblance between the two machines, and perhaps by way of a coincidence, they both have an ' AK ' number plate.

It would seem that whilst Scott made a 3 wheeler machine gun carrier, and the Army trialed the machine, it was never accepted into service, so the example shown in post # 836 may have been the prototype, or the machine made for the War Department trials ?

I shall post some information on Alfred Angas Scott, and his motorcycle Company.

In some references, his name is given as Alfred Angus, and in others Alfred Angas.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Alfred Angas Scott (1875-1923), patented an early form of caliper brakes in 1897, a fully triangulated frame, rotary induction valves, unit construction, and more.

1875 June 2nd. Baptised at Holy Trinity, Batley Carr Manningham, a mill town just north of Bradford to Ben Scott, a Stonemason and his wife Elizabeth

Scott's family moved to Scotland and he went to school at Melrose on the Scottish border near Selkirk.

1891 Listed as a pupil at a school at 21 Holmesdale Gardens, Hastings: Alfred A. Scott (age 16 born Bradford) Family later moved to Uttoxeter in Staffordshire where Alfred studied engineering and design at Abbotsholme School.

Trained in engineering at shipbuilders Douglas and Grant in Kirkcaldy

Worked at W. Sisson and Co in Gloucester, where he learnt to design and develop marine engines.

1900 He had started making engines for boats

1901 Living as a boarder at 17 Victor Road, Bradford: Alfred A. Scott (age 26 born Bradford), a Mechanical Engineer working on Own Account. In home of Herbert Pickles and his wife.

1904 Patent GB 3367 for an engine

1908 He made his first motorcycle with a 450 cc two-stroke twin cylinder engine and two speed gearbox mounted in a triangulated frame. He is credited with the invention of the kick start.

1908 Founder of the Scott Motor Cycle Co

1911 Living at Marchfield, Wilmer Drive, Bradford: Herbert Scott (age 46 born Bradford), a Stuff Manufacturer and Employer. With his wife Alice Scott (age 38 born Paris) and their children Violet C. Scott (age 13 born Bradford), Maisie R. Scott (age 8 born Bradford), and Harold K. Scott (age 6 born Bradford). Also a guest Alfred A. Scott (age 36 born Bradford), an Engineer, Motor Cycles and Employer. Two servants.

1912 Listed as 'Scott, Alfred, Mech. Engineer, 6 Spring Gardens'.

1915 Joined the Scott Autocar Co

1923 August 11th. Aged forty-eight, Alfred Scott died of pneumonia.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The Scott Engineering Company

1901 Scott built his first engine. It was a twin-cylinder two-stroke, fitted to a Premier bicycle. It was mounted in front of the headstock and the front wheel was belt driven.

1902 Scott revised his design so that the engine was behind the headstock with a friction, belt driven countershaft to the rear wheel.

1904 Scott patented his design as a twin-cylinder two-stroke with a central flywheel, overhung crankshafts and round crankcase doors.

1906 For one year, a basic 2.5hp single was offered called the 'Scout'. It was a typical primitive with rigid forks and belt drive. Although the claim was made that they produced the engine themselves, it was probably bought in.

1908 By now, Scott had developed a complete machine with a 333cc, 3hp engine, air cooled cylinders and water cooled heads. This clever design remained unchanged for many years. He arranged for the design to be manufactured by the Jowett brothers, but they built only six machines before alternative arrangements were made in Bradford to create the Scott Engineering Co. During that year Scott raced successfully at several hill climbs. Due to its style and the fact that it was easy to start, the motorcycle attracted a lot of attention.

1909 Production started in earnest. The machines had kickstarts and an increased capacity.

1911 There had been many improvements over the past couple of years. The engine became fully water-cooled and the capacity was enlarged to 486cc. A machine was entered in the TT with high hopes, but the engine had a lot of problems.

1912 After a lot of modification, Scott entered the TT again, and scored success when Frank Applebeewon the Senior and set the fastest lap.

1913-1917 For a list of the models and prices of motorcycles see the 1917 Red Book

1913 Success was repeated the following year, this time by Tim Wood who won by just five seconds. It was one of the closest victories in the history of the TT. The two-speed Scott was further improved that year, as demand was greater.

1914 For the TT, the works machines had a revised engine, but the results were disappointing. They finished well down - even after setting the fastest lap. Production continued into the first couple of years of the Great War, and for the services they built a sidecar model that carried a machine gun. Scott's ideas continued to develop and he produced an array of models. One was a three-wheeled gun car. There was also the Scott Sociable, which looked like a small car with the front left wheel missing. These models were built on a triangular tubular chassis.

1915 Scott left the company in 1915 and after World War I formed the Scott Autocar Co in nearby Bradford, to make a civilian version of his proposed military three-wheel motorcycle/car hybrid called the Sociable.

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Lancashire Fusilier

I have just found a scale drawing of a Peerless showing the hatches.As the body was the late 3 series Austin I take it that the hatches on this must (??) be OK for the Austin.

I was at Bovington last year,should have taken more pic's but I don't think I would have got permission to clambering on their Peerless !!!!

The British had a number of surplus ' Peerless ' chassis, and these surplus chassis were fitted with ' Austin ' manufactured armoured car bodies made by Austin, presumable at their Longbridge factory.

So these particular armoured cars are really ' Austin ' Armoured Cars on a ' Peerless ' chassis. So any hatches, are in fact Austin designed and built by Austin and not by Peerless.

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

A Lorry load of German Prisoners arriving at the Divisional prison cage at Acheux, under armed guard. The photographs, are dated July 1917.

LF

C/o IWM Q934-35 These images is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Rockdoc

Attached is a photograph of Scott's later 3 wheeler ' Sociable ' and we can clearly see the resemblance between the two machines, and perhaps by way of a coincidence, they both have an ' AK ' number plate.

I certainly don't think it's a coincidence. Vehicles for evaluation would have to be registered or be on trade plates, I would have thought, because they aren't truly military vehicles. I've had a good trawl around the web and found THIS. And guess where AK was the code for - Bradford!

Keith

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Lancashire Fusilier

And guess where AK was the code for - Bradford!

Keith

Keith,

Your confirmation of the ' AK ' Bradford number plate, is the icing on the cake. Your man ' A. A. Scott ', is certainly the maker of that amazing machine gun carrier machine.

Many thanks,

LF

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