WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A unit of para-military ' Black & Tans ' officially The Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve, showing both the khaki ex-British Army uniforms and the dark coloured RIC uniforms they wore, the mixture of colours giving rise to their ' Black & Tan ' nickname.

Of note, are the array of weapons being carried which included, rifles, revolvers and a Lewis machine gun.

 

LF

 

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

In the previous post we can see a good example of the ' Irish ' style of slung or suspended holster, used both by the ' Black & Tans ', and later by the Irish Army.

 

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The following two photographs are good examples of the Crossley 20/25 Tender in service with the Royal Irish Constabulary ( RIC ), and it is interesting that many of the RIC Crossley Tenders have the number plate letters ' NC ' which are for an early ' Manchester ' registration, this coincidence may be due to the Crossley factory being in Gorton, Manchester, with the Crossley 20/25 Tenders being first registered locally in Manchester and then shipped to Ireland for use by the RIC and the ' Black & Tans '.

 

In the first photograph showing an RIC Crossley 20/25 Tender, registration number NC 1785, it is interesting to see that two of the RIC Constables are armed with SMLE rifles fitted with 2.5 inch Rifle Grenade Launcher Cups. Their other weapons include SMLE rifles, service revolvers and also a Lewis Machine Gun.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

RIC Officers and Constables with their Crossley 20/25 Tenders, with the Crossley on the right again having an early ' NC ' Manchester vehicle registration.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

In the previous post, the taller RIC Officer standing between the Crossleys, is holding a service revolver, which was probably a Webley Mk.VI .455 calibre service revolver.

 

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is a wonderful photograph of a heavily armed joint British Army and Royal Irish Constabulary ( RIC ) patrol stopped on a road in Dublin County, Ireland, with this photograph aptly illustrating the ongoing utilisation of a range of British military vehicles following the end of WW1.

Shown left to right, and bringing up the rear of the column, is a twin-turreted Austin Armoured Car Model 1918, which was probably belonging to the 17th Armoured Car Battalion which was stationed in the Dublin area.

Next, is an ' AEC Y-Type ' General Service Lorry carrying British troops, in front of which are two Crossley 20/25 Tenders carrying RIC Constables.

 

Both Crossleys have number plate letters ' I(i)K ', and whilst the letter ' I (i) ' was/is never used on a British number plate, the letter ' I ' was used by the British in Ireland, and in particular in Dublin County, were the vehicle registration number plate letters ' IK ' were used.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Another example of a Crossley 20/25 Tender being used for a joint British Army and RIC patrol in Ireland, with the British troops armed with SMLE rifles with fixed bayonets and a Lewis machine gun.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is an interesting photograph, which shows that the British Army themselves were using Crossley 20/25 Tenders in Ireland following the end of WW1

This particular photograph shows a Crossley 20/25 Tender carrying troops from the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, with the vehicle parked on the Killaloe - Nenagh Road, which was North of the town of Limerick in County Clare, Ireland.

Interestingly, the photo's caption refers to the vehicle as being a ' Tactical Crossley ', so perhaps that was the official term used for the Army's Crossley 20/25 Tenders.

The Sergeant standing to the left, is holding a Webley Mk.VI Service Revolver, and the soldier behind the driver appears to have a rifle fitted with a rifle grenade discharger cup.

A Lewis machine gun, is also mounted on the front of the Crossley.

Unfortunately, the Crossley's number plate letters are not clear, and may read ' JI ' which was an Irish vehicle registration issued by the British.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Another photograph showing British Army ' Tactical Crossley ' 20/25 Tenders parked outside the RIC Police Station/Barracks in the village of Ballinhassig located some 6 miles South of Cork City in County Cork, Ireland.

The area was the scene of fighting between the IRA and the RIC/ Black & Tans, with the ' Toureen Ambush ' taking place near the village, during which several members of the Black & Tans were killed.

Also of note, the Police Station/Barrack's fortified upper windows with firing ports.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

 

 

[depaor01]

On ‎18‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 19:12, Lancashire Fusilier said:

A unit of para-military ' Black & Tans ' officially The Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve, showing both the khaki ex-British Army uniforms and the dark coloured RIC uniforms they wore, the mixture of colours giving rise to their ' Black & Tan ' nickname.

Of note, are the array of weapons being carried which included, rifles, revolvers and a Lewis machine gun.

 

LF

 

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

I've heard that the unusual method of wearing the holster was influenced by Wild West films from Hollywood which were gaining popularity at the time.

 

Dave

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2 hours ago, depaor01 said:

I've heard that the unusual method of wearing the holster was influenced by Wild West films from Hollywood which were gaining popularity at the time.

Dave

 

Dave,

That may certainly have been an influence, and it is also interesting that this ' Irish ' style of a slung/suspended revolver holster, carried over to the newly formed Irish Army after independence.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

 

[depaor01]

14 minutes ago, Lancashire Fusilier said:

 

Dave,

That may certainly have been an influence, and it is also interesting that this ' Irish ' style of a slung/suspended revolver holster, carried over to the newly formed Irish Army after independence.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

 

 

I didn't know it was adopted by the National Army afterwards. That photo certainly proves it.

Without wanting to wander too far off topic, the Free State Army was perceived by many to be simply the successors to the recently-departed and by then unpopular British Army. Designing and using similar leather kit to the former (even more unpopular) Black and Tans seems very odd indeed.

 

Could the leather holster kit be RIC/Black and Tan surplus inherited by the Free State?

 

If this question is too far off the thread topic I'm happy to delete and ask elsewhere.

 

Dave

 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1 hour ago, depaor01 said:

Could the leather holster kit be RIC/Black and Tan surplus inherited by the Free State?

 

Dave,

 

As you probably know, I am always anxious to get as much background information on the photographs as is possible, so in answer to your question, I doubt that the newly formed Irish Army used left-over revolver holsters from the RIC/Black & Tans, as the Irish Free State Army's holster whilst still slung/suspended, was in reality, a completely different rig, with it's long suspension straps attached to rings on the back of the holster, and the very unusual and distinctive leg/thigh strap which kept the holster in place.

I am sure the new Irish Free State Army had them specially made in Ireland, and would not have wanted to be seen using second-hand kit, especially from the RIC or the Black & Tans.

The attached photograph nicely illustrates the Irish Free State Army Officer's distinctive slung/suspended revolver holster.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

 

[depaor01]

Always something new to learn in the most unlikely threads!

 

Thanks LF

 

Dave

 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

55 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

Always something new to learn in the most unlikely threads!

Thanks LF

 

Dave,

 

Whilst the Irish Free State Army would not have been interested in second-hand revolver holsters, a nice gleaming Crossley 15 hp Staff Car would have been a completely different matter !

The attached photograph shows a newly acquired Irish Free State Army's superb Crossley 15 hp Tourer Staff Car with the revised ' V ' shaped radiator grille, complete with the new Irish Free State Army insignia emblazoned on the bonnet, carrying obviously pleased Irish Free State Army Officers.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

During WW1, the Crossley 20/25 Tenders were typically used to carry supplies and equipment, and when transporting military personnel, it was usually done outside of an active war zone, whereas in Ireland, the Crossley Tenders were exposed to a completely different and far more precarious situation, and with their completely open bodywork, the Crossley 20/25 Tender and it's occupants were extremely vulnerable to attack, particularly from small arms/rifle fire and hand grenades.

The attached newspaper photograph, shows the aftermath of an ambush attack on an RIC Crossley 20/25 Tender.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

To address the issue of the Crossley 20/25 Tender's vulnerability to attack and to offer some protection to the Crossley's occupants, light armour and a wire roof cage to protect against hand grenades, fire bombs and other dangerous objects being thrown into the Tender, began to be fitted to many of the Crossley 20/25 Tenders in service in Ireland.

The attached photograph shows a newly converted Crossley 20/25 Tender with the added light armour protection to it's side and front bodywork, and the addition of the wire roof cage.

The Crossley's occupants are from the RIC ( driver ) and the Black & Tans.

The Crossley's number plate letters ' O.I. 8766 ' are for a Belfast vehicle registration.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Whilst I realize I have now moved on beyond the end of WW1, I am doing so to try to illustrate the complete service life span for the British military Crossley 20/25 Tender, which really ended once the Irish War of Independence concluded.

Also, during the period immediately following WW1, many of the Crossley 20/25 Tenders which had seen service during WW1, were transferred to Ireland, and new models evolved, as seen in the previous post, which I think are very important to illustrate.

By including the Crossley 20/25 Tender's service in Ireland, I hope to show the complete picture of it's service history.

Many thanks.

 

Regards,

LF

[MikeyH]

Lancs,

 

My late father was born in County Cavan and was able at an early age to distinguish the engine note of the British army's Crossley Tender from the very widely used Model T Ford, the car of choice of the local doctors, solicitors, more affluent farmers and parish priests.  He moved to Dublin in the mid 20's, to join his uncle's business.  The Crossley Tender was still being used in some numbers by the Free State Army.  There was a compound in central Dublin, I forget where, in this he used to recall there were a number of Crossley's, around twenty,  kept as spare parts donors to keep the others in service.

 

Mike.

[Knotty]

 

 

Good Afternoon LF

Sage of all transport items, is it possible that you could identify the vehicle in the picture, or if anyone else can.

I believe that it is of Serbian origins looking at the uniform of the soldiers, but I have no knowledge of their mechanical transport whatsoever, and the great electronic book of knowledge appears to be of little help to me on this one.

 

Thanks

John

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1 hour ago, MikeyH said:

There was a compound in central Dublin, I forget where, in this he used to recall there were a number of Crossley's, around twenty,  kept as spare parts donors to keep the others in service.

Mike.

 

Mike,

 

It is nice that you can recall your father's conversations regarding the Crossleys, and following the formation of the new Irish Free State Army, equipment including Crossley 20/25 Tenders were either sold or donated to the new Irish Army by the British.

Here is a photograph showing such a Crossley 20/25 Tender, newly belonging to the Irish Free State Army and carrying Irish troops, which may very well be one of the Crossleys your father recollected seeing in Dublin.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

The first three axles are on the ground but the fourth looks like it is in the air. The rear wheels of the lorry look similar to those used on guns.

There looks like a chute over/ in front of first axle. Have not got a clue of the make

[Lancashire Fusilier]

John,

 

An interesting photograph which shows a General Service Lorry towing a large piece of artillery mounted on it's carriage, with the soldier shown far left sitting on the gun's barrel.

Both the rear wheels of the GS Lorry and the Gun's carriage have been fitted with mud-wheels/attachments which gives the GS Lorry an unusual look.

The first two wheels on the left belong to the gun, and the next two wheels are the GS lorry's.

The lorry has certain features which may help to identify the make.

I know that the French used such mud-wheels, and the uniforms could also be French ?

Hopefully, a maker can be found for the GS Lorry.

The attached enlargement shows a better view of the wheels.

 

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1 hour ago, Knotty said:

 

 

Good Afternoon LF

Sage of all transport items, is it possible that you could identify the vehicle in the picture, or if anyone else can.

I believe that it is of Serbian origins looking at the uniform of the soldiers, but I have no knowledge of their mechanical transport whatsoever, and the great electronic book of knowledge appears to be of little help to me on this one.

 

Thanks

John

 

 

John,

 

It is a Fiat 70 hp, used by both the Italians and the French to haul artillery ( see attached ).

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

 

[Knotty]

LF

What can I say, except many thanks for finding out the id of the tractor in such a short time.

 Let's hope that the FIAT wasn't a Friday afternoon job like we had once

 

Regards

John