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Lancashire Fusilier

WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

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Rockdoc

In this photograph showing the Marconi Wireless Transmitter prepared for use, It is interesting to note that the power unit for the Wireless Transmitter, is a belt-driven generator, which is permanently mounted on the crossbar above the petrol tank, with power to the generator coming directly from the motorcycle's engine via a drive-belt.

A couple of points:

  1. Driving the generator from the engine would have been very much simpler on a Douglas compared to most other marques because it had an external flywheel onto which a pulley could be added simply.
  2. Riders of the period would have been experienced at adjusting drive-belts and would have had various bits and pieces in their kit to repair breaks or take out excess, for example. That makes me think that the generator would not have been connected while the bike was being driven but would have had the belt fitted as required. There would have been no need for it to generate power on the move and it would have been all too easy for the rider's jacket to become trapped, with the risk of injury if this happened.

Keith

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Lancashire Fusilier

Another photograph showing the 25th ( County of London ) Cyclist Battalion, London Regiment's ' Auto-Carrier ' Maxim machine gun carriers and an Ammunition Carrier.


All the Auto-Carriers' number plates shown, are early London North West region registrations.



LF





This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.


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Lancashire Fusilier

Re #4867 'A restored Auto-Carrier', am pretty sure that this is the one displayed in the National Motorcycle Museum, Bickenhill, Birmingham. Also the home of the International Birmingham Arms Fair.

Mike,

Many thanks for the information, and I took a look at their website hoping to find a better quality photograph of the restored ' Auto-Carrier ' than that shown in post #4867, which is not that clear.

I did however, find the attached excellent photograph of a superbly restored ' Auto-Carrier ', which gives us great details of this 5.6 hp rear wheel chain-drive 3-wheeler introduced by the Wheeler Brothers' Company, Autocars and Accessories Ltd., in 1904.

This significantly important 3-wheeler, led not only to the A.C. Armoured Car, but also eventually to the A.C. Cobra and other magnificent A.C. cars.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The ' Auto-Carrier ' 3-wheeler delivery vehicle, showing details of the rear wheel chain-drive, the driver's seating position and the ' tiller ' steering and controls.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

the petrol/electric loco's of Kerr Dick and British Westinghouse. I am after the drivers cab layout and details, in general most photographers in major conflicts only photo the outsides....no consideration for modelers...!

George,

There is information on and photographs of both the Dick Kerr and the Westinghouse Petrol-Electric Tractors previously posted here, use Dick Kerr, Westinghouse or Petrol Electric in this Thread's search box.

I shall also, be emailing you the ' Simplex ' 20 hp photographs.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier
  1. Driving the generator from the engine would have been very much simpler on a Douglas compared to most other marques because it had an external flywheel onto which a pulley could be added simply.
  2. Riders of the period would have been experienced at adjusting drive-belts and would have had various bits and pieces in their kit to repair breaks or take out excess, for example. That makes me think that the generator would not have been connected while the bike was being driven but would have had the belt fitted as required. There would have been no need for it to generate power on the move and it would have been all too easy for the rider's jacket to become trapped, with the risk of injury if this happened.

Keith,

Many thanks for the information, and I agree that a moving belt from the generator to the flywheel would have been exceedingly dangerous to the rider, so perhaps the generator's drive belt was fitted only when the Wireless Transmitter was actually in use.

Regards,

LF

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Rockdoc

Modern motorcycle clothing is generally much tighter than it would have been back then, when most people would have used some variation of normal clothing, but I certainly wouldn't want to ride that combination with the generator belt in place. Off-topic, to be sure, but I remember reading in a late sixties Motorcycle Mechanics of a sidecar rider who had an intermittent problem with his bike's engine cutting out but restarting immediately he had come to rest. It turned out that he was wearing a long coat, similar to a macintosh, and one of the skirt-pieces was being drawn to the bellmouth of the carburettor and held there by the intake suction, cutting off the fuel supply. Imagine something like a lapel or, heaven help us, a scarf being caught in that pulley. Isadora Duncan springs to mind.

Keith

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Modelmaker

To LF, re my earlier post, thanks yet again.

Looking at the "Petrol Electric" link threw up some nice photo's, one in particular #2273892, has two 60pdrs of the later Mk, with tractor wheels. Early guns had the barrel pulled back for travelling. Due to complexity and cost, tractor wheels were fitted to allow the gun to be moved with the barrel "in place". A directive was issued later to re-fit wooden wheels, on these guns the barrel was disconnected from the cradle / recuperator. This allowed the barrel to be drawn back (again) without the use of complicated (costly) fittings.

The wagon shown is also interesting, crammed with ammunition boxes such that the sides are bulging out.

Amazing stuff, as always.

Thanks.

George.

PS, I have now been sent some photo's of the cab interior, taken from a large scale model.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Looking at the "Petrol Electric" link threw up some nice photo's, one in particular #2273892,

George,

I am pleased you took a look back into the archives and found that particular photograph showing the two 60 pounders being transported, which also symbolized the gloomy quagmire that was Passchendaele.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

A Great Western Railways ' Auto-Carrier ' delivery vehicle, it's ' LD ' number plate is an early London North West region registration.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

By 1907, the ' Auto-Carrier ' 3-wheeler delivery vehicle had become a familiar sight on London's streets, and it's financial success enabled the Weller Brothers to once again turn their attention to a ' motorcar ' project.

It was decided to introduce a 2-seater passenger version of the Auto-Carrier to be named the ' Sociable '. As with the Auto-Carrier, the ' Sociable ' was a 3-wheeler with a chain-driven rear wheel, which was powered by a 640 cc air cooled engine which gave the Sociable a top speed of 40 mph. It was also fitted with a clutchless 2-speed epicylic gearbox.

The complete front of the ' Sociable ' was able to pivot forward, giving the passengers easy access to their seating.

The attached photograph shows an early 1908 version of the ' Sociable '.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Two 1912 Auto-Carrier Ltd advertisements for their ' Sociable ' vehicle, priced at 92 pounds 10 shillings.

LF

Graces Guide This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

LF






Graces Guide This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.


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Lancashire Fusilier

This photograph of a 1912 Auto-Carriers ' Sociable ' clearly shows how on this basic model, the front of the vehicle, including the fold-down windshield, pivots forward to allow easy access to the passenger seating.

Also of note, is the ' Tiller ' steering and controls stick.

Decorating the front of the chassis, can be seen the ' AC ' roundel, which was later to be used as the iconic ' AC ' radiator badge.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The Auto-Carrier's ' Sociable ' 640 cc air-cooled engine, which was located behind the passenger compartment and directly in front of the rear wheel.



LF





This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.


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MikeyH

Note the ingenious method of driving the cooling fan from a flywheel, eliminating the need for a drive belt.

Mike.

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Rockdoc

I don't think I've ever seen a single-cylinder side-valve engine with two spark plugs before. The really weird thing is that only the plug over the inlet valve is connected to the magneto while the lead to the other looks as if it goes towards the bulkhead. Very curious!

Keith

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Lancashire Fusilier

Note the ingenious method of driving the cooling fan from a flywheel, eliminating the need for a drive belt.

Mike.

I don't think I've ever seen a single-cylinder side-valve engine with two spark plugs before. The really weird thing is that only the plug over the inlet valve is connected to the magneto while the lead to the other looks as if it goes towards the bulkhead. Very curious!

Keith

Mike & Keith,

Here is a different view of the Auto-Carriers ' Sociable ' engine on a restored 1913 model.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Some 1,800 Auto-Carrier ' Sociable ' 3-wheelers were manufactured between 1907 and 1914.

Here is a 1913 ' Sociable ' advertisement.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

In 1913, the Weller brothers added their first 4-wheeler to the ' AC ' range, a sporty 2-seater, which was produced in either an 8-10 hp or 5-6 hp models.

The 10 hp model had a 4-cylinder 1500 cc ' Fivet ' engine, and was the first motorcar to use the disc type of clutch, had a three-speed gear-box, which to save weight, was incorporated with the rear axle, and for additional weight reduction aluminium castings were used.

It was the chassis from the ' AC ' 10 hp 1500 cc model, which a year later ( 1914 ) was to be selected by the War Office for their prototype ' AC Light Armoured Car '.

The first photograph shows the ' AC ' 10 hp Light Motorcar, and we also see the first appearance of the iconic ' AC ' radiator badge.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Rockdoc

Here is a different view of the Auto-Carriers ' Sociable ' engine on a restored 1913 model.

That makes a great deal more sense. The brass cup arrangement would allow a small amount of fuel to be dribbled directly into the cylinder to help start the thing. Any large single is going to be a pig to start - as my right ankle still demonstrates some 47 years on! You have to find the compression stroke then ease it just past top dead centre before giving it what the magazines of my youth would call "a long, swinging kick." That gave it enough rotation to do the four strokes and go over tdc next time round. I can't see a kick-starter on that engine so I assume there must have been an electric starter of some sort. Even so, there would probably have to be a decompressor or valve-lifter. It's possible that the valve under the cup would do that job.

I'd love to see one of those engines on the bench.

Keith

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Lancashire Fusilier

A 1913 Auto-Carriers' advertisement showing their new range of 4-wheelers, with prices.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Rockdoc

Here's a 1903 Sociable being started and given a short run. It was hand-cranked.

https://youtu.be/43K_MMBBkqk

Keith

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Lancashire Fusilier

Here's a 1903 Sociable being started and given a short run. It was hand-cranked.

Keith,

A great video, and nice to see the Sociable's engine actually working.

I can see the fittings on the front of that particular vehicle to which the pivoting front-end and folding windshield would have been attached, and somewhere along the way the original front section has been removed.

Looks great fun to drive.

Regards,

LF

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Modelmaker

Evocative....my first car was a 1939 MG T Type. It had to be "persuaded" to start on cold mornings, my father taught me to take the plugs out and heat them on the cooker, while hot put them back and hand-crank......another lesson learnt.....how to hold the starting handle correctly......a few bruises but no serious injuries.....I had heard the kick back could break your arm if you weren't careful.

Just to mention the car was second hand, bought in late 60's. They could be bought quite cheaply then !

George.

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