WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

most of Dad's time seems have been around Limerick I will double check my odd photo's , but no large Tanks may be the odd Whippet ?

Depending on when your Dad was stationed in Limerick after WW1, he may well have served alongside a Mark IV Male Tank named ' H.M.T. Scotch & Soda ' ( His Majesty's Tank ) which was sent to Limerick in January 1919 to support the British troops in countering civil unrest from the Irish Independence activists, which included the Limerick Trade Unions.

On January 21, 1919, one of the Limerick Trade Union activists, Robert Byrne, was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment with hard labour by a Military Court for possession of a revolver and ammunition without permission, and in protest at his imprisonment Byrne went on hunger strike. As his condition worsened, he was transferred to the Limerick Workhouse Hospital.

On 6th April 1919, members of the para-military Limerick Volunteers planned to rescue Byrne, and in the resulting shoot-out at the hospital two policemen and Byrne were shot and killed.

In protest at Byrne's shooting a General Strike was declared by the Trade Unions in Limerick, and the British Army's response was to declare ' Martial Law ' and seal off Limerick by closing the Thomond Bridge over the River Shannon so that all entry and exit in and out of Limerick was strictly controlled by the British Army, with the Mark IV Male Tank, ' H.M.T. Scotch & Soda ' stationed at a barricade at one end of the Thomond Bridge to enforce the blockade of Limerick.

In response to the British Army's siege of Limerick, the besieged Limerick workers set up their own local government to be known as the ' Limerick Soviet ', however, as the British Army's siege took hold, and daily life became more difficult, and many local businesses suffered, support for the workers diminished, and the ' Limerick Soviet ' dispersed in early May 1919, and Martial Law was lifted.

The attached photograph, shows the Mark IV Male Tank ' H.M.T. Scotch & Soda ' stationed at the barricade set up by the British Army on the Thomond Bridge over the River Shannon to enforce Martial Law and the blockade of Limerick in April/May 1919.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is another photograph of the British Mark IV Male Tank ' H.M.T. Scotch & Soda ', stationed at the barricade on Limerick's Thomond Bridge during the April/May 1919 British Army's imposition of Martial Law.

As in the previous post, the Tank's name ' H.M.T. Scotch & Soda ', can be seen painted on the mid-front side panel of the Tank.

Also seen, are the Mark IV Male Tank's sponson armaments, a 6 pounder gun and a Lewis machine gun in each sponson.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Close up of the Mark IV Male Tank ' H.M.T. Scotch & Soda ' painted name marking.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is an extremely interesting and intriguing photograph of the Mark IV Male Tank named ' H.M.T. Scotch & Soda ', along with it's crew.

Posed photographs of an identified named WW1 Tank along with it's actual crew are quite rare, and what makes this particular Tank & crew photograph so much more interesting is the crew's headwear, as each crew member appears to be wearing a Glengarry ?

If indeed the Tank's crew were wearing Glengarrys, was this because those crew members were originally drawn from one of the Scottish regiments ? or could it be that ' Scotch & Soda's ' crew were enjoying a unique play on words linking the ' Scotch ' part of their Tank's name to their wearing Glengarrys ?

Either way, a rare and very interesting photograph.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Modelmaker]

Is that an MP peering round the back........"got my eye on you scruffy lot" ???

George.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A very nice photograph of two Mark V* Male Tanks attached to the 17th AC Battalion whilst on internal security duty in Ireland, which are parked on a beach outside of Cork in the South of Ireland during early 1919.

This photograph clearly shows the extra crew door and the additional Hotchkiss machine gun port above that door, located between the sponson and the air intake grille, which were able to be incorporated into the extra 6 feet of body length on the Mark V* ( as opposed to the 6 feet shorter Mark V version ).

Also of note, the large spotlight fitted to the top of the driver's cab, and not seen on the ' battle ' Tank.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[patrick Eggs]

Hello LF good to se men of the 17th Armoured Car Battalion with the Tanks on the beach and you say a good selection of crewmen ,also note the chap sitting on the rear with the dog ,possible mascot ?,in some of Dad's old drawings the odd scruffy dog turns up, that is a nice photo.

I have checked Dad's paper records and he was in Ireland until May/June 1920.

Regards Crimson Rambler'

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Hello LF good to se men of the 17th Armoured Car Battalion with the Tanks on the beach and you say a good selection of crewmen ,also note the chap sitting on the rear with the dog ,possible mascot ?,in some of Dad's old drawings the odd scruffy dog turns up, that is a nice photo.

I have checked Dad's paper records and he was in Ireland until May/June 1920.

Regards Crimson Rambler'

It is good to know that these Mark V and Mark V* Tank photographs, are connected to your Dad's period of service with the 17th Armoured Car Battalion in Ireland.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Germans placed great importance on the recovery and salvaging of British Tanks, along with their repair and subsequent re-issue to the German Army.

In the attached photograph, we see a German railhead set up near the village of Fontaine-Notre-Dame some 5 miles West of Cambrai in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of Northern France, specifically as an assembly point for British Mark IV Tanks salvaged after the Battle of Cambrai, which were then loaded onto flatbed rail cars for shipment to German tank repair depots, such as that at Raismes.

For those British Tanks which were immobile, the Germans used an ingenious wooden tank hoist capable of lifting the 28 ton Male or 27 ton Female Mark IV Tanks sufficiently off the ground so that the flatbed rail wagon can be rolled under the raised tank, which was then lowered down onto the flatbed rail wagon, as can be seen in the middle of this photograph.

To the far left of this photograph, is a steam Traction Engine which would have been used to tow the salvaged tanks to this location.

The salvaged Mark IV Tanks in this photograph, are from the British 2nd Brigade, Tank Corps, which were knocked out during the Battle of Cambrai ( November 20 - December 7, 1917 ).

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Modelmaker]

Hi LF,

Now this is an incredible photo, full of detail and great inspiration for some sort of diorama.

I note the tank jacked up is fitted with spuds on the tracks.

I imagine that some considerable co-operation was required to ensure the raising mechanism was coordinated.

Is there any explanation or info on those frames to the left, they appear to have large rollers attached to a frame ?? Perhaps for moving disabled tanks (damaged or missing tracks perhaps).

George.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Is there any explanation or info on those frames to the left, they appear to have large rollers attached to a frame ?? Perhaps for moving disabled tanks (damaged or missing tracks perhaps).

George,

I am sure those heavy rollers, which appear to be hooked up to the Traction Engine, were used to move and or tow disabled salvaged British Tanks.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This photograph, shows the Germans in the process of salvaging a British Mark IV Male Tank, which was one of the 100 or so British Tanks the Germans recovered after the Battle of Cambrai ( November 20 - December 7, 1917 ).

LF

BA This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

Fascinating photo of the tank raised on jacks, which I have seen before but never noticed those rollers. Personally, I would have thought that if a tank was placed on them, then the rollers would have just sunk into the ground and become very difficult to move. I think it's more probable that they will have been used in the preparation of the ground for the jacking arrangement as it will have been fairly important to get the ground level and firm. On the other hand, as LF points out, tanks were lifted at times and towed by some means, as per this photo which is apparently the Germans using captured traction engines to tow the broken down tank. The other thought that comes to mind is mine clearance although in this other photo the rollers are pivoted to enable the tank to move left and right; rigid mounting would have made this very difficult.

David

[Lancashire Fusilier]

the Germans using captured traction engines to tow the broken down tank. The other thought that comes to mind is mine clearance although in this other photo the rollers are pivoted to enable the tank to move left and right; rigid mounting would have made this very difficult.

David,

As you say, those rollers had a use, and even after 100 years, there is still so much to learn from these WW1 photographs.

The rare photograph of the Mark IV Tank fitted with the experimental Anti-Mine Rollers ( AMRs ), whilst apparently not used during WW1, were subsequently developed and used during WW2 fitted to various types of British Tanks, the attached photographs shows AMRs fitted to a ' Valentine ' Tank, so named as it's design was submitted by Vickers to the War Department around Valentine's Day 1938.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[trajan]

I enjoy popping into this thread now and again - very informative! Thanks LF for continuing it!

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I enjoy popping into this thread now and again - very informative! Thanks LF for continuing it!

Julian,

Nice to know you are following the Thread, and are finding it interesting.

Regards,

LF

[Modelmaker]

Have to say LF, my day would not be complete without dropping in.

George.

[johnboy]

Re post#4509

I don't think the rollers were for levelling or compacting the ground. They are not full width. A platform would not be needed on top Could they have been used as bogies to move the tank?

[Modelmaker]

Re post#4509

I don't think the rollers were for levelling or compacting the ground. They are not full width. A platform would not be needed on top Could they have been used as bogies to move the tank?

I still think this is their purpose. A closer look shows all kinds of chains for holding down a load.

George.

[Beechhill]

I enjoy popping into this thread now and again - very informative! Thanks LF for continuing it!

Seconded! Thank you, LF and, of course, all contributors.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Have to say LF, my day would not be complete without dropping in.

George.

Thank you, and your support and contributions are much appreciated.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Seconded! Thank you, LF and, of course, all contributors.

Many thanks, and it is nice to know that you are enjoying this Thread.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Re post#4509

I don't think the rollers were for levelling or compacting the ground. They are not full width. A platform would not be needed on top Could they have been used as bogies to move the tank?

I still think this is their purpose. A closer look shows all kinds of chains for holding down a load.

George.

Hopefully, a photograph will surface showing these ' rollers ' in use.

They looked to have been heavily chained, and were probably hooked up to that Traction Engine.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I note the tank jacked up is fitted with spuds on the tracks.

Tank Track ' Spuds ' were steel extensions fitted every couple of feet onto a Tank's original track, and their purpose was two-fold. Firstly, due to their being wider than the standard Tank Track, their extra width assisted in distributing the Tank's weight over a wider area, however, their main function was in the ' Spud's ' design, which incorporated a steel blade, which ran the length of the underside of the ' Spud ', the purpose of this blade was to provide additional grip/traction to the Tank's Track when moving over soft ground.

Photographic evidence shows that Tank ' Spuds ' were certainly fitted to British Tanks from the Mark II through to the Mark IV, and were fitted to the Mark IV Tanks during the Battle of Cambrai.

The ' Spud ' name, is thought to have originated from their spade like design, which was very similar to that of the small hand spades used for digging up potatoes ( spuds ).

Attached is a rare photograph of an original British Tank's ' Spud ' recovered from the Western Front, which clearly shows the Spud's design, particularly the underside blade. As we can see from this somewhat battered blade, it was prone to damage from the weight of the Tank when being driven over hard ground, such as paved or cobbled roads.

The second photograph clearly shows ' Spuds ' fitted to a British Mark II Tank, which was subsequently captured by the Germans.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A British Mark II Male Tank fitted with ' Spuds ', captured by the Germans.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.