David Filsell Posted 29 December , 2015 Share Posted 29 December , 2015 I would love to be wrong, but In view of its apparent carelessness with exhibits, I wouldn't put any odds on the models ever seeing the light of day in the IWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 29 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2015 I am thinking that they are horizontal guides, used by the Steam Roller driver to keep him on track ? I wondered that but they don't seem too level, lower down in the drivers eyeline would have been better? Perhaps Tomo has seen those fittings on a Steam Roller before ? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmaker Posted 29 December , 2015 Share Posted 29 December , 2015 I would love to be wrong, but In view of its apparent carelessness with exhibits, I wouldn't put any odds on the models ever seeing the light of day in the IWM I believe IWM Duxford is the official repository of Lambeth exhibits, but there seems no way (I know of) of finding out if there is a catalogue or listing.... Scale models of wagons/limbers/artillery and trucks were on view, plus some superb large scale cut-away models of WW2 aircraft, I recall a very impressive cut-away model of a Lancaster. Some years ago when researching Humber vehicles, they had 1/10 models of all the Humber range built by apprentices....I was allowed access to model of the Humber Scout car to measure. No sign of any of these marvellous exhibits any where on display......of course extra room was required for a new cafe and shop......!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2015 The Tank diorama shown previously in post #4399 ( enlarged details attached ), was built for the new Imperial War Museum at Crystal Palace in the early 1920's by a Mr. Charles Ledwidge and depicts four Mark IV Tanks in action near Cambrai in late November 1917. The two Mark IV Tanks on the left, are ' Male ' Tanks having the larger Sponsons on both sides of the Tank fitted with the shorter 6 Pounder gun at the front of the Sponson and a Lewis Light Machine Gun mounted at the rear of the Sponson. Whereas, the Tank shown in the middle and on the right are Mark IV ' Female ' Tanks having the smaller Sponsons which were fitted with 2 Lewis Light Machine Guns, one at the front of the Sponson and one at the rear. This ' Tanks in action at Cambrai ' diorama was originally housed in a large glass case when it was on display at Crystal Palace, and as yet, I have not seen any photographs of it's display at South Kensington or Lambeth Road. Perhaps, someone has seen it ? or knows it's whereabouts ? LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 30 December , 2015 Share Posted 30 December , 2015 I'm not sure why the tank in the centre-ground is depicted at such a sharp (and I would have thought improbable) angle when it is also carrying a Fascine intended for deployment into trenches to prevent this sort of thing? I would of thought it would have been more fitting to show it riding over the Fascine having been released? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2015 I'm not sure why the tank in the centre-ground is depicted at such a sharp (and I would have thought improbable) angle when it is also carrying a Fascine intended for deployment into trenches to prevent this sort of thing? I would of thought it would have been more fitting to show it riding over the Fascine having been released? David David, The Mark IV Tank was certainly capable of dealing with steep gradients, as can be seen in this photograph of a Mark IV Male Tank traversing a steep embankment. Probably, the model's maker, Mr. Charles Ledwidge, was working from photographs of the Mark IV in action, plus adding his little bit of artistic licence. Interestingly, in this photograph, we can see a nice clear view of the Mark IV's driver. Regards, LF IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Is it not interesting that the IWM never seem to respond in any wany to criticism on the forum. Perhaps the case(s) against them is/are indisputable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Eggs Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Hello Re. the Tank at an acute angle,this is a drawing from my Dad's autograph/note book you will have seen it in previous post a time ago but this his view of a Tankman in battle the rh. tank is at that angle and was in some serious trouble. Crimson Rambler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 LF & CR much appreciate the postings on the subject and accept that these machines were on occasions driven into such positions. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Regarding tanks driven into positions that resulted in the 'under belly' being exposed, would this have made them more vulnerable to shellfire, or did the undersides carry the same plate thickness as the outer shell? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Regarding tanks driven into positions that resulted in the 'under belly' being exposed, would this have made them more vulnerable to shellfire, or did the undersides carry the same plate thickness as the outer shell? Mike, A Tank's overall weight was always a consideration, and to keep the Mark IV's weight at 28 tons ( Male ) 27 tons ( Female ), the Mark IV's armour-plating was 12 mm thick for the most critical front of the tank, 8 mm for the tank's sides, and for the generally less exposed top and underside of the tank, 6 mm. The Mark IV's 70 gallon fuel tank, located low down at the rear of the Tank, was protected in an armour-plated box. While climbing at a steep angle, the underside of the Mark IV Tank protected by 6 mm armour-plating, would certainly have been vulnerable to German anti-tank fire, particularly from the massive German 13.2 mm T-Gewehr Anti-Tank Rifle round. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 For information on, and photographs of the massive German 13.2 mm Tankgewehr M1918 Anti-Tank Rifle posted back in December 2013, here is the link :- http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=173218&page=40 LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Re. the Tank at an acute angle,this is a drawing from my Dad's autograph/note book you will have seen it in previous post a time ago but this his view of a Tankman in battle the rh. tank is at that angle and was in some serious trouble. Crimson Rambler Many thanks for the post, and it is always interesting to see pages from your Dad's WW1 autograph/note book. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Lancs, Thanks for the info. regarding the thickness of armour plate on the Mark IV tank and the link to the 13.2 mm Tankgewehr M1918 Rifle. There was one for sale at the last Birmingham Motorcycle Museum Militaria event, an effective looking piece of kit. Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Is it not interesting that the IWM never seem to respond in any wany to criticism on the forum. Perhaps the case(s) against them is/are indisputable! David, For the new Imperial War Museum at Crystal Palace, there was no shortage of space to display many of the very large model exhibits housed in large glass cases, as seen with the ' Tanks in action at Cambrai ' exhibit, however, with the move to the much, much, smaller premises at South Kensington in 1924, many exhibits from Crystal Palace were sold off, moved to other sites, dismantled and even destroyed ! In the 90+ years since the move from Crystal Palace, to South Kensington, and then the subsequent move to Lambeth Road, I am sure nobody even knows what happened to many of the ' lost ' exhibits, some may be tucked away at Duxford, and I am sure others ended up on someone's sideboard. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 An Aveling & Porter Steam Wagon. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 1 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2016 Happy New Year. This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 1 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2016 A Beautifully restored Aveling & Porter Steam Wagon. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 2 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2016 In 1912, Aveling & Porter experimented with a 3-ton petrol engined commercial lorry, which probably had a limited production, as with the Aveling & Porter Steam Wagon shown in the previous post, only 292 Steam Wagons were produced. Not a lot seems to be known about the Aveling & Porter 3-ton petrol engined commercial lorry, and as of today, this is the only photograph of that lorry I have seen. Although, it is not particularly clear from this photograph, the Aveling & Porter emblem on the front of the lorry was again the prancing ' White Horse ' of Kent. LF Grace's Guide. This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 2 January , 2016 Share Posted 2 January , 2016 I certainly know what happened to a skip full found junked outside the IWM - they fell into the happy hands of someone who realised their historical value!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2016 I certainly know what happened to a skip full found junked outside the IWM - they fell into the happy hands of someone who realised their historical value!!! David, Well done, for spotting and salvaging those discarded historically valuable items. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2016 It would appear that the problem of the sheer weight of a Steam Roller collapsing the ground on which it was standing, seems to have been a perennial one. In this photograph, circa 1950's, the driver of an Aveling & Porter Steam Roller is trying to dig his stricken machine out of a hole in the road, under the watchful eye of two elderly gentlemen, who may be recalling seeing something similar happening some years earlier on the Western Front. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2016 My final posts relating to Aveling & Porter, show their premises at ' The Embankment ' in Strood, Kent on the River Medway circa 1920's, in 2010 just before their demolition, and also during the 2010 demolition of their former premises, ending a chapter in the Aveling & Porter story. The first photograph circa 1920's, shows workers leaving the Aveling & Porter factory at the end of their shift, passing one of the Steam Engines they made. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2016 Aveling & Porter's premises at ' The Embankment ' in Strood, Kent on the River Medway, circa 1920's. LF This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 3 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2016 Aveling & Porter's former premises at ' The Embankment ' in Strood, Kent on the River Medway, seen in 2010, both just before their demolition and during their demolition. LF These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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