WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Specifications for the M1918 3-inch Mobile Anti-Aircraft Gun.

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Two final photographs showing the M1918 3-inch Anti-Aircraft Gun, one showing the gun with it's crew and senior officers, and the other, showing the gun in action, probably at a display, which gives us details of the gun's crew and their positions during firing.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

3-inch 20 cwt Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun.

Introduced on 11th March 1914, the 3-inch 20 cwt Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun was based on the pre-WW1 Vickers 3-inch Naval Gun.

The designation ' 20 cwt ' referred to the combined weight of the gun's barrel and breech, and was used so as to differentiate the 3-inch 20 cwt Gun from other 3-inch Guns.

During WW1, 3-inch 20 cwt QF Anti-Aircraft Guns were used in Britain and on the Western Front, both in fixed A.A. positions, and also as a Mobile A.A. Guns, with the Mobile A.A. Guns being lorry mounted, and also mounted on a towed trailer ( see posts #3778/79 ).

The first 3-inch 20 cwt QF A.A. Guns arrived on the Western Front in November 1916, and at the end of WW1, 102 were still in service on the Western Front, and 257 were in service on the Home Front.

Attached is a nicely detailed photograph of a 3-inch 20 cwt. Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun in a fixed position at Tunstall Hill, Tyne & Wear, which was part of the Anti-Aircraft defences for Britain's ports.

The photograph shows the gun's crew from the 20th A.A. Battery, Durham Royal Garrison Artillery, and provides excellent details of the gun's crew and their positions during firing.

Also of note, are the Ammunition Lockers containing the numbered shells, and the slatted wooden firing platform area.

The 3-inch 20 cwt Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun had a maximum range of 23,500 foot ceiling firing a 12.5 lb shell and a muzzle velocity of 2500 ft/sec.

The Gun had a maximum elevation of 90 degrees and a 360 degree traverse.

The 3-inch 20 cwt Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun, remained in service until 1946.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GWF1967]

A fully restored 3 inch 20 Cwt, one of only 6 survivors worldwide, installed at Dover Castle for exhibition/demonstration.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A fully restored 3 inch 20 Cwt, one of only 6 survivors worldwide, installed at Dover Castle for exhibition/demonstration.

GWF1967,

An interesting photograph, and also very nice to know that a 3-inch 20 cwt Anti-Aircraft Gun has been restored and is on display at Dover Castle.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The American ' Peerless ' rear wheel chain-drive chassis, which came in 3, 4 and 5-ton versions, was usually used as a mount for the 13 pdr. Anti-Aircraft Gun, however, here is an excellent example of the 3-inch 20 cwt. Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun mounted on a 4-ton Peerless lorry, with the gun at a 60 degree firing elevation.

Note the blocks with rope handles, placed under the stabilizer jacks.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Photographs of a lorry mounted 3-inch 20 cwt. Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun are extremely rare, and usually the only one published in that shown in the previous post, so this photograph is particularly interesting and important in that it shows one, and possibly also two other 3-inch 20 cwt Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Guns mounted on a ' Peerless ' lorry, actually in service, with some of the crew members relaxing in the shade of the Peerless lorry.

What is not known, is when the photograph was taken. The gun and the lorry are both WW1, however, there is the possibility that the photograph was taken after the end of WW1, either way, it is an extremely interesting and important photograph.

Note, the custom made gun cover fitted over the adjacent gun.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

With the WW1 lorries used as mounts for Anti-Aircraft Guns being typically Thornycroft or Peerless lorries, it was interesting to see a ' Daimler ' lorry mounted with a 13 pounder 6 cwt Mk 3 Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun fitted with a Mk I High Angle Lorry Mount, which is identified by the ' Fin ' design at the base of the pedestal.

Based on the date the gun was introduced, 16th November, 1914, and some of the Daimler's features, including the shape of it's scuttle, the lorry appears to be a Daimler CC-Type.

The side of the Daimler, is marked that the lorry is attached to an ' Anti-Aircraft Section '.

The Gun has a maximum elevation of 70 degrees with a 360 degree traverse, a 25 inch recoil, and a maximum range ( ceiling ) 17,000 feet.

These guns remained in service throughout WW1, and in 1919 some were re-converted back to their original configuration and returned to service with the King's Troop Royal Horse Artillery.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Details showing the ' Fin ' design on the pedestal base of a Mk I High Angle Lorry Mount, as shown in the previous post.

LF

British Artillery Weapons 1914-18 Hogg & Thurston. This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

An excellent photograph of a 55th Division Peerless lorry mounted with a 13 pounder 6 cwt Mk 3 Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun on a Mk I High Angle Lorry Mount firing at night near the village of Wailly, with the illumination from the barrel flash clearly highlighting the distinctive ' Fin ' design at the base of the pedestal on the Mk I High Angle Lorry Mount.

Interestingly, the 13 pounder Gun on the left, is still in the travelling position, with it's barrel lowered and resting on the barrel support.

The village of Wailly is 3 miles SW of Arras, in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of Northern France.

This photograph is dated 16th April, 1916.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Mk I High Angle motor lorry gun mount shown in the previous 3 posts, needed to be replaced due to the various problems experienced by the gunners using it.

Various modifications were made to the Mk I, including installing a much wider yoke to support the gun and cradle, and a completely redesigned recoil system which enabled the Mk I's large side-shield attached to the cradle to protect the gunlayer from being struck by the recoiling gun, to be removed. Additionally, a large Fuze-Range Dial was fitted to the gun's cradle on the right-side. Also, various controls were better located and with more up to date sighting systems fitted.

The result, was the new Mk 2 High Angle motor lorry mounting, shown here with a 13 Pounder 6 cwt Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun mounted on a Thornycroft J-Type Lorry. The gun is shown in the travelling position, with the barrel lowered and resting on the barrel support.

It was these early developments in the design of the lorry mounts for the 13 Pounder QF A.A. Gun, which led to the Mk 3 Mount and eventually to the highly successful Mk 4 Mount, both of which will be posted.

The first photograph shows details of the Mk I High Angle motor lorry gun mount, including the much narrower yoke, and also the large side-shield attached to the cradle, which was removed on the Mk 2 mount.

The second photograph shows the Mk 2 High Angle motor lorry mounting on a Thornycroft J-Type lorry.

LF

British Artillery Weapons 1914-18 Hogg & Thurston. This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Mk 2 High Angle motor lorry mounting, shown here with a 13 Pounder 6 cwt Quick Firing Anti-Aircraft Gun mounted on a Thornycroft J-Type Lorry. The gun is shown in the travelling position, with the barrel lowered and resting on the barrel support.

This photograph, taken from the left-side of the lorry/gun, fails to show that on the right side of the gun cradle is fitted a large Fuze-Range Dial.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Michael Haselgrove]

Yesterday I was given a number of large format photos. Military vehicles are not my main interest but I thought I would share a couple of the photos in case they are of interest to others. One photo is captioned "Limbered kitchen". The other has a caption written in pencil at the top "Car for hauling kitchen, fitted with camping stores etc. Can be used separately in standing camp, etc. Both photographs have a stamp on the back "South Midland Divisional Supply Column (M.T.) A.S.C. 15th Dec 1914"

Anyway, hope they are of interest.

Regards,

Michael.

[GRANVILLE]

If you didn't have the information of the field kitchen you could be forgiven for thinking that was straight out of the American Civil War, admittedly only 50 years previous.

David

[johnboy]

What does 'Notts RHA' stand for?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

What does 'Notts RHA' stand for?

Nottinghamshire Royal Horse Artillery.

Regards,

LF

Yesterday I was given a number of large format photos. Military vehicles are not my main interest but I thought I would share a couple of the photos in case they are of interest to others. One photo is captioned "Limbered kitchen". The other has a caption written in pencil at the top "Car for hauling kitchen, fitted with camping stores etc. Can be used separately in standing camp, etc. Both photographs have a stamp on the back "South Midland Divisional Supply Column (M.T.) A.S.C. 15th Dec 1914"

Anyway, hope they are of interest.

Regards,

Michael.

Michael,

Many thanks for the two superb photographs, which personally, I had not seen before, so they are extremely interesting.

Regards,

LF

[johnboy]

Nottinghamshire Royal Horse Artillery.

Regards,

LF

That's what I thought. Were the kitchens served by their own regiments or ASC?

​

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Were the kitchens served by their own regiments or ASC?

johnboy,

It appears that the Nottinghamshire Royal Horse Artillery were formed on 1st April 1908, originally as a Territorial Unit, and as such, those local Territorial Units often had privately donated funds with which to buy equipment and vehicles, as the Notts. RHA., purchased from William Vincent, who was a respected Coachbuilder in Castle Street, Reading, and having privately purchased their vehicle(s), they proudly displayed their name on the vehicle(s). The Notts. RHA Field Kitchen, would have been used by them in Britain, at their ' Camps '.

Previously, I had posted photographs of another Units privately purchased vehicles, which I shall find and re-post.

After the outbreak of WW1, some of the Notts. RHA was amalgamated and posted overseas to France, following which, they would have come under Army Regulations, and their Field Kitchen services would have been provided by the Army Service Corps.

Regards,

LF

[johnboy]

Thanks for the explanation/ It is also the first time I have seen a rifle slung on the side of the vehicle.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

As is sometimes the case, we see differing information in reference books and also on photograph captions.

The attached interesting photographs, show the very first lorry mounted Anti-Aircraft Guns sent to France with the British Expeditionary Force.

Interestingly, the lorries used for those first mobile AA Guns sent to France, were converted LGOC ( London General Omnibus Company ) B-Type London Bus chassis, with the guns mounted on specially modified Mk I High Angle lorry mounts.

Whilst there appear to be differences in the size and design of the side-mounted shield attached to the gun's cradle, the guns and the gun mounts shown the photographs are the same.

The first photograph, shows two of the first LGOC B-Types mounted with their 13 Pounder QF Anti-Aircraft Guns on modified Mk I High Angle lorry mounts, being inspected by no doubt curious French soldiers.

The second photograph, shows a Mobile 13 pdr QF AA Guns in action near Nieppe, close to the Belgian border in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of Northern France.

This second photograph, also gives excellent detail of the Mk I's side-mounted shield attached to the cradle, which was designed to protect the right-side of the Gunlayer's body from being struck by the recoiling gun.

This photograph also gives us good details of the numbers of men making up the gun's crew, and their positions during firing.

We can also see 3 members of the crew at the rear of the lorry, arming and preparing the shells for firing.

Also of note, is the array of tools attached to the lorry's tailgate.

Hogg & Thurston's respected reference book, British Artillery Weapons 1914-18, gives the date for the first lorry mounted 13 pdr A.A. guns being sent to France as being mid-1915. Whereas, the Imperial War Museum's caption for the second photograph gives the date the first Mobile 13 pdr QF AA Guns were sent to France, as being November 1914. The caption also refers to the gun as being an 18 pdr.

Here is the IWM caption :-

" The first lorry-mounted 18-pounder field gun for anti-aircraft defence with 4th Division, British Expeditionary Corps, Nieppe, France, November 1914. Under command of Captain C A Mortimore."

Either way, these 6 x 13 Pounders mounted on LGOC B-Type lorries were certainly the first such mobile QF A.A. Guns sent to France at the start of WW1.

The first photograph shows 2 LGOC B-Types with their 13 pdr guns.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is the IWM caption :-

" The first lorry-mounted 18-pounder field gun for anti-aircraft defence with 4th Division, British Expeditionary Corps, Nieppe, France, November 1914. Under command of Captain C A Mortimore."

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Rockdoc]

The History of the Ministry of Munitions, Volume X, supports the November date. To quote:

The first request for anti-aircraft guns for service with the army in France that has been found is in a letter from Sir John French of 24th September, 1914. He asked for the provision of one anti-aircraft section of two guns for each division. Instructions were given to the Ordnance Factories (30th September) and trials with the first equipment of 13-pdr. R.H.A. guns converted for use against aircraft were carried out in October, the first section of two guns leaving Woolwich for France in November.

Supply must have been very slow because French pointed out, on 31st July, 1915, that he had only 13 sections of AA guns, plus 2 R.M.A.-operated 2-pdr sections, for an army that would soon be 29 divisions. Such desperation probably explains why the six Elswick guns were ever allowed into the supply chain. They were of a totally different design to anything else the British used and may have needed a different shell. They had been produced by Elswick as a private venture into field guns and the company offered them to the army. The HA mount was different and it had a breech like that of the French 75mm gun so the men would have needed additional training. The only known site for Mk IVs outside France is with 99th AAS at Salonika.

The guns in post 3870 are 13-pdr 6-cwt Mk IIIs. In 3871 the gun is a Mk IV. You can most easily tell the difference by looking at the double-buffer arrangements. On the Mk III the two are a similar length. On the Mk IV they are clearly different lengths.

Keith

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The History of the Ministry of Munitions, Volume X, supports the November date. To quote:

The guns in post 3870 are 13-pdr 6-cwt Mk IIIs. In 3871 the gun is a Mk IV. You can most easily tell the difference by looking at the double-buffer arrangements. On the Mk III the two are a similar length. On the Mk IV they are clearly different lengths.

Keith

Keith,

Many thanks for November date information, which confirms the date given in the IWM photo caption.

David Fletcher's book ' War Cars ', also confirms those guns as being Mk 3s.

Regards,

LF

[kevinrowlinson]

The guns in post 3870 are 13-pdr 6-cwt Mk IIIs. In 3871 the gun is a Mk IV. You can most easily tell the difference by looking at the double-buffer arrangements. On the Mk III the two are a similar length. On the Mk IV they are clearly different lengths.

Keith

Keith,

When were these modifications made between the Marks? Photos that appear to have a longer top buffer are supposed to be illustrating the early guns, although they normally show the side mounted shield. Are you sure that the early guns didn't have different length buffers, or am I misinterpreting the posts?

Either way good to see any photos showing the RA.

Kevin