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Remembered Today:

WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards


Lancashire Fusilier

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With reference to post # 3673 here is a period photograph postcard showing the Mont Dore Hotel in Bournemouth which was used as a Military Hospital during WW1, and today is the location of the Bournemouth Town Hall.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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We can date the photograph in post # 3673 fairly accurately, as having been taken between November 1914, when the Indian wounded started arriving at Mont Dore Hospital, Bournemouth and November 1915, when Mont Dore Hospital ceased taking Indian wounded, who were moved elsewhere, mainly to Brighton.

LF

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A gas powered NAPIER bus around 1918

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A post WW1 ' Pagefield Model N ' Tipping Lorry, I assume the lorry being loaded with men, was to show the Tipping Lorry's capacity. Again, note the modified cab design.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

That is actually a dustcart the men are standing in. Pagefield developed a system of refuse collection with those dustcarts which were horse drawn. When the cart was full the lorry used to deliver an empty cart and remove the full one using the tilting runners to load and unload the carts saving the time it took the dustcarts to go to and from the tip. Its the same principle as the modern 'tilting bed' car recovery system but without the benefit of todays power systems, then it was manual winch and cable.

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That is actually a dustcart the men are standing in.

Phil,

Many thanks for the additional information, which ties in with Walker's expansion into the refuse collection vehicle business post-WW1.

Regards,

LF

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With reference to the photograph of the Mont Dore S.A.G. Hospital in Bournemouth shown in post #3675, the following information on the Mont Dore confirms that the ' S.A.G.' Hospital designation refers to the former Bournemouth Hotel as being a South African General Hospital.

" The Mont Dore Hotel was taken over by the War Office for conversion into a hospital for the Indian Wounded on 20th November 1914. 20 Officers and men of the RAMC arrived from London on Sunday 22nd November and they were followed by 30 to 40 soldiers of the Madras Infantry Regiment who were to look after the wounded. The first batch of about 100 wounded Indian soldiers arrived at the end of November.

From then until November 1915 there was a constant stream of Indians arriving, and when fit going elsewhere, sometimes to the convalescent hospital at Barton-on-Sea. In November 1915 the Mont Dore, together with other Indian hospitals, became a British Military Hospital. This was because of the withdrawal of the Indian Army Corps from France. The Indians at the Mont Dore were moved either to the Indian Hospital at Brighton, or to Lady Hardinge's Hospital at Brockenhurst. It is said that the ghost of an Indian soldier who died at the Mont Dore can be seen in the basement.

After the departure of the Indian soldiers nearly 500 British wounded were moved in to be nursed by members of the South African Medical Corps. The SAMC had left South Africa in October 1915 and arrived in Bournemouth in January 1916. The 1st South African General Hospital left for France in July, leaving the RAMC to run the Mont Dore. Australian and New Zealand soldiers were admitted as well as British, but in 1918 the Hospital was changed yet again into a convalescent home for Officers. The existing patients were transferred by train and car all over the country. The men of the St. John Ambulance Brigade took men by road as far as Swanage, Yeovil and Cosham. A number of the convalescent Officers formed themselves into a Pierrot Troupe and gave concerts to help the Mayor's War Fund and the Women's Emergency Corps. Others made up teams to play cricket and football against local clubs and the Bournemouth School for Boys.

In November 1918 many of the patients were Officers repatriated from Prisoner of War Camps. Unlike the Auxiliary Hospitals no statistics of the number of wounded admitted were published, so it is impossible to say how many were treated there. The Mont Dore closed in 1919, but it did not revert to a hotel. It was purchased by the Bournemouth Corporation for use as the Town Hall, opening in 1921."

LF

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A gas powered NAPIER bus around 1918.

johnboy,

Many thanks for the interesting ' Gas Bag ' Napier photograph.

' Gas Bag ' vehicles were introduced during WW1 as a result of the heavy rationing of petrol, and also as a result of the new Fuel Tax on petrol introduced in July 1916, which doubled the cost of a gallon of petrol.

The ' Gas Bag ' which was mounted on top of commercial vehicles, motorcars and even motorcycles contained ' Coal Gas ', and although it was an alternative vehicle fuel to petrol, the problem was that a typical large ' Gas Bag ' mounted on a private motorcar, which contained 100 Cubic Feet of Coal Gas, was only equivalent to half a gallon of petrol.

The use of ' Gas Bag ' vehicles running on Coal Gas was well promoted during WW1, and even the then Prime Minister, Herbert Asquith, used a ' Gas Bag ' motorcar ( see attached photograph ).

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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We have seen many examples of the Vauxhall D-Type vehicle used as a military Staff Car, here is an excellent example of the Vauxhall D-Type Ambulance with it's driver, photographed in the Army Service Corps ( ASC ) Motor Transport car park at Boulogne in 1916.



LF




IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.


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Another photograph from an excellent set which details the various types of ambulances, as seen in the Army Service Corps ( ASC ) Motor Transport car park at Boulogne in 1916.

This photograph showing a ' Sunbeam ' ambulance with it's driver.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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The WW1 Petrol-Electric Light Rail Locomotive / Trench Tractor

Previously in this Thread, we had looked at the ' Simplex ' 20 hp and 40 hp Trench Tractors, which were developed for light rail use at the front, where their ' Dorman ' petrol engines allowed them to be used in front line areas where steam locomotives producing smoke, could not be used, as their smoke would have been far too conspicuous to the enemy and therefore highly vulnerable to enemy shell fire.
Along with the Simplex Trench Tractors, the British War Department also identified the need for a larger Light Rail Tractor/Locomotive for use at the front, which again for safety reasons, could not be steam powered.
The original concept was for the ' electric ' powered tractors to be supplied with electricity from overhead power lines, however, this idea was promptly shelved when it was soon realized just how vulnerable such overhead power lines would be to enemy shelling.
The result was a War Department contract for 200 Petrol-Electric Tractors, with 100 Tractors being manufactured by British Westinghouse at Trafford Park, and 100 Tractors being manufactured by Dick, Kerr & Co., at Kilmarnock.
The 4 x 32 inch wheel Petrol-Electric Tractor was powered by a ' Dorman ' 45 h.p. 4JO 4-cylinder water-cooled petrol engine driving a 30 kW DC generator at 1000 rpm, which provided current of up to 500 volts to two 25 hp electric traction motors, this giving the Tractor sufficient power to haul 100 tons ( 3 or 4 wagons containing troops, stores/supplies and or ammunition ) at 5.2 mph.
Also, as we have seen in the earlier posts relating to Mobile Workshops, those same electric motors were also used to provide up to 500 volts of electrical power to a mobile workshop being hauled by the Petrol-Electric Tractor.
The Petrol-Electric Tractors were also armoured to provide protection to the drivers when working in front-line areas.
The 8-ton British Westinghouse and Dick, Kerr Petrol-Electric Tractors were very similar internally, and also externally, with the exception that the Dick, Kerr Tractor has louvered engine side-panels and the British Westinghouse Tractors had plain engine side-panels, this making for easy visual external identification between the two different makes.
The first of a series of photographs of both the British Westinghouse and Dick, Kerr Petrol-Electric Tractors/Locomotives I shall be posting, shows the external differences between the two maker's engine side-panels.
LF
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The first photograph of the WW1 Petrol-Electric Tractor/Locomotives I shall be posting, aptly shows the visual external difference between those Tractors made by Dick, Kerr and those made by British Westinghouse, which although basically the same Tractor/Locomotive, the main visual difference was the engine's side-panels, which on the Dick, Kerr model were louvered, and on the British Westinghouse model were plain.

The Dick, Kerr model is shown on the right, linked front end to front end, with a British Westinghouse model on the left, and we can clearly see the difference in the two models side-panels.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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WW1 Petrol-Electric Tractor/Locomotive - British Westinghouse model


In 1889, George Westinghouse the Founder and President of the Electric and Manufacturing Company of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., who were leading manufacturers of electrical generators, transformers and motors in America, set up a British Company, Westinghouse Electrical Co. Ltd of London, to market Westinghouse's products both in Britain and Europe, with offices in London and a factory in Trafford Park, Manchester.


Later in 1889, Westinghouse changed the British Company's name to The British Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Co., to both market Westinghouse's American electrical products and also manufacture those products at their Trafford Park works.


Following problems with the American Westinghouse Company, the British Westinghouse Company eventually became an independent operation during WW1, becoming part of the British Tank manufacturing company, The Metropolitan, Carriage, Wagon and Finance Co., who in 1919 joined with Vickers to form the Metropolitan-Vickers Electrical Company.


No doubt, Metropolitan's strong WW1 connections with the War Department via it's Tank manufacturing contracts, played a major role in British Westinghouse being awarded their 50% share of the War Department's contract for 200 Petrol-Electric Tractors.


In the attached photograph we see a superbly detailed example of the British Westinghouse Petrol-Electric Tractor/Locomotive W^D No. LR 2005 doing exactly what it was designed to do, i.e. haul large and heavy equipment in front lines areas using power other than steam, which in this case was transporting a large calibre Howitzer on a flat-bed waggon, and typically hauling loads too large for the ' Simplex ' Trench Tractors.


This photograph also shows the distinct external visual differences between the British Westinghouse PE model and the Dick, Kerr PE model, in that the British Westinghouse Petrol-Electric Tractor had 3 plain engine side-panels, and the Dick, Kerr model had distinctive louvered side-engine panels.

Another distinctive feature on the British Westinghouse PE model, were the 3 vents on top of the engine's forward side-panels, which were not used on the Dick, Kerr PE model.


LF



This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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WW1 Petrol-Electric Tractor/Locomotive - Dick, Kerr and Company model


Scotsman William Bruce Dick founded W.B. Dick and Company in 1854 in Glasgow, initially as an oil refining company, and also marine paint manufacturers.

In 1883 William Dick went into partnership with a former employee, John Kerr, to form Dick, Kerr and Co., and expanded their marine paint manufacturing business to also include steam launch building and the construction of their own marine gas engine.


By the late 1890s, Dick, Kerr and Company had further expanded their marine gas engine construction to also include steam tramway engines, and by 1904, Dick, Kerr and Company had become one of Britain's leading electric tram car manufacturers.


No doubt, it was Dick, Kerr and Company's expertise in electric tramway construction which led to Dick, Kerr and Company being awarded their 50% share of the War Department's contract for 200 Petrol-Electric Tractors.


In the attached photograph, we see a pair of Petrol-Electric Tractors manufactured by Dick, Kerr and Company working back to back on a light rail line in Ypres during October of 1917.

Again, this photograph details the distinctive louvered engine side-panels on the Dick, Kerr PE model, as opposed to the plain engine side-panels on the British Westinghouse PE model.


LF



This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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With reference to the previous post showing the pair of Dick, Kerr PE Tractors, to far right of that photo, is a partial view of a ' Simplex ' 40 hp. Trench Tractor, which was also powered by a ' Dorman ' engine.


Also, to the far left of the photograph, we can see part of the amoured cab of a third Dick, Kerr PE Tractor.



LF

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A graphic example of the obvious dangers of operating a PE Tractor in front line areas both to the PE Tractor and it's crew, this 8-ton Dick, Kerr model has been blown off the light rail tracks and partially buried as a result of enemy shelling of the light rail line.



LF






IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.


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This photograph, provides us with an excellent detailed view of the WW1 W^D's Petrol-Electric Tractor's ' Dorman ' 45 h.p. 4JO 4-cylinder water-cooled petrol engine driving a 30 kW DC generator at 1000 rpm, which provided current of up to 500 volts to two 25 hp electric traction motors, with this power unit being common to both the British Westinghouse and Dick, Kerr PE Tractor models.

The attached photograph which shows the ' British Westinghouse ' PE model W^D No. 2036, gives good details of the British Westinghouse's 3 forward vents above the engine side-panels which were not used on the Dick, Kerr model.

Also of note are PE Tractor's Royal Engineer crew members, and in front of the PE Tractor, we can see a partial view of a ' Simplex ' 20 hp Trench Tractor, with the PE Tractors and the ' Simplex ' Trench Tractors often being used on the same front line area light rail system.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Impressive.

Am I correct in assuming Cdns were not the only MG Motor Bde in Great War?

Did British Army have these fmns as well?

Merci

RJJ

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Impressive.

Am I correct in assuming Cdns were not the only MG Motor Bde in Great War?

Did British Army have these fmns as well?

Merci

RJJ

RJJ,

I am pleased to hear that you found the posts on the Borden Canadian Motor Machine Gun Brigades of interest, and yes, the British Army also had motorized Machine Gun Battalions, typically equipped with ' Clyno ' motorcycle combinations armed with Vickers machine guns.

If you enter ' Clyno ' in the search box for this Thread ( shown in the top right of this page ), it will bring up information and photographs of the Clyno/Vickers equipped Machine Gun Battalions.

Plus, there were the machine gun equipped Armoured Car Battalions, and again in the search box enter ' Austin Armoured Car ' and ' Austin-Peerless Armoured Car '.

Regards,

LF

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LF re image in Post 3685..... nice image and a bit of a rarity. The Australian Light Rail Operating Companies and other Aust. Railway troops were the only personnel other than Mechanical Transport issued with leather peaked caps which generally had the collar badge sized Rising Sun on the front above the visor. MT images are not uncommon but Railway examples are relatively scarce. Cheers.... Rod

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Dick Kerr's had a factory in Preston that built electric tram cars and it was turned over to munition manufacturing during ww1. I am 99% certain that my Grandfather worked there before enlisting.

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LF re image in Post 3685..... nice image and a bit of a rarity. The Australian Light Rail Operating Companies and other Aust. Railway troops were the only personnel other than Mechanical Transport issued with leather peaked caps which generally had the collar badge sized Rising Sun on the front above the visor. MT images are not uncommon but Railway examples are relatively scarce. Cheers.... Rod

Rod,

Many thanks for the additional information on the peaked cap shown being worn in post # 3685, it is important to get as much information as possible on these WW1 images.

Regards,

LF

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Dick Kerr's had a factory in Preston that built electric tram cars and it was turned over to munition manufacturing during ww1. I am 99% certain that my Grandfather worked there before enlisting.

Gardenerbill,

How interesting that your Grandfather probably worked for Dick, Kerr and Company in Preston.

The Dick, Kerr and Company factory in Preston stood at the corner of Strand Road and Watery Lane, Preston, where in 1911 Dick, Kerr also established an Electrical Lamp manufacturing company ( The English Electric Co. Ltd. ), along with their other Preston based business interests.

When WW1 was declared, the assets of the large German electrical company, Siemens, were confiscated by the British Government. Siemens, prior to WW1 were one of the largest electric lamp makers in Britain, and following their confiscation, much of their electric lamp production was transferred to Dick, Kerr's factory in Preston.

Also, following the outbreak of WW1, Dick, Kerr's factory in Preston was also turned over to wartime armament production.

Attached is a photograph of Dick, Kerr's Preston factory where your Grandfather may have worked, taken shortly after WW1, also shown is a Dick, Kerr electrical company float, mounted on a fine looking Leyland A-Type Lorry, promoting their English Electric Co. Ltd's ' Britannia ' electric lamps.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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In addition to the very real dangers to both the PE Light Rail Tractors and their crews from the German's daytime shelling of the light rail lines at the Front, there was also the added danger to both the PE Tractors, their crews and other vehicles and their occupants operating in the front line areas at night, with the PE Tractors and the other vehicles deliberately travelling after dark without lights so as not to make the enemy aware of their movements or position.

In the attached photograph, we see the result of a night collision between a light rail tractor and a Ford Model-T Staff Car, which was struck whilst crossing the light rail line at night without lights.

The PE Tractor shown is a Dick, Kerr model, and the carriage it is hauling is possibly a captured German carriage, as both the carriage's design and camouflage paint scheme are more typically German than British.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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The coach was built by the Canadians and used as an inspection coach.It used the bogies from a German bogie wagon.The Canadians were prolific NG builders and were not adverse to pinching/borrowing WDLR equipment from any body !!!!

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The coach was built by the Canadians and used as an inspection coach.It used the bogies from a German bogie wagon.The Canadians were prolific NG builders and were not adverse to pinching/borrowing WDLR equipment from any body !!!!

Many thanks for your Canadian/German identification information, it was obviously not usual British rolling-stock.

Regards,

LF

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