WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A lot of ideas credited to the second world war had a start in the first. Dummy tanks as old as tanks!

As far as WW2 German Dummy Tank construction was concerned, not a lot had changed since WW1. In this 31st July 1944 dated photo, a British officer inspects a wooden German made Dummy Tank found in the Normandy area.

Regards,

LF

IWM8297 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Why would the Germans build dummy Allied tanks? I know that they used captured examples but I'm still puzzled by these photos.

Keith

Keith,

I think David is correct.

The Germans appear to have used dummy enemy tanks for training their own troops in the development of tactics and strategies in dealing with enemy tanks, they may also have used formations of dummy enemy tanks to deceive and confuse the enemy by placing those ' Friendly ' dummy tanks on the battlefield.

During the fighting for the strategically important German occupied Belgian town of Charleroi, the Germans made several dummy French FT 17 Tanks, and from the photographs shown in posts # 3220/1, the floor of the yard surrounding that particular FT 17 dummy tank is strewn with the timber planking typically used by the Germans in their dummy tank construction, which probably indicates that those dummy FT 17 Tanks were actually built by the Germans in Charleroi rather than their being French made dummy FT 17s captured by the Germans.

Also in post #3207, we see 2 British and 1 French dummy tanks made by the Germans in the Belgian town of Comines.

Coincidently, both the German occupied Belgian towns where we have seen German made French FT 17 dummy tanks were in Flanders' battlefield areas.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A photograph showing wooden dummy French FT 17 Tanks, is hand captioned " Boche Dummy Tanks Belgium ", and appears to confirm the Germans built several French FT 17 Dummy Tanks for use in Flanders.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[wbremner]

The Germans appear to have used dummy enemy tanks for training their own troops in the development of tactics and strategies in dealing with enemy tanks, they may also have used formations of dummy enemy tanks to deceive and confuse the enemy by placing those ' Friendly ' dummy tanks on the battlefield.

That makes sense. Is it conceivable that the Germans copied British and French tanks as a ruse to make the Allied forces think they had re-purposed captured tanks? The Germans were slower to tank development in WW1, and there are examples of real tanks being captured, re-badged, and re-used. Perhaps they thought that it was more likely their opponents would believe they had captured tanks, as their silhouettes were more recognisable to observers. Just a thought.

Edit: Added this picture of a dummy German tank. The silhouette would have appeared "boxy", to say the least.

[Scalyback]

A quick flick of "Churchill's Wizards" by Nicolas Rankin makes no mention of Great war dummy tanks. So possibility of an under researched topic.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

That makes sense. Is it conceivable that the Germans copied British and French tanks as a ruse to make the Allied forces think they had re-purposed captured tanks? The Germans were slower to tank development in WW1, and there are examples of real tanks being captured, re-badged, and re-used. Perhaps they thought that it was more likely their opponents would believe they had captured tanks, as their silhouettes were more recognisable to observers. Just a thought.

Certainly another plausible explanation.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

In addition to the British Army using full sized three-dimensional replica ' Dummy ' tanks, they also used dummy tanks consisting just of a painted canvas facade depicting the front of a British tank, mounted on a metal frame fitted with skids, which allowed the dummy tank to be stood in position. Whilst these ' facade ' Dummy Tanks would have been easily detected from the air, when placed strategically on the battlefield facing the enemy position, and viewed from a distance, they would have deceived the enemy into believing that British Tanks were present. Additionally, these ' facade ' dummy tanks were highly mobile, and presumably much easier to construct.

The first photograph shows details of the ' Dummy ' tanks painted facade, and its supporting metal frame and skids.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A ' Facade ' dummy tank in position on the battlefield, and when viewed from a distance would be able to deceive the enemy.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

It's convincing close up!

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This photograph shows a number of British ' Facade ' Dummy Tanks ' at their Depot, several such dummy tanks would have been required to be placed on the battlefield or in a certain area to indicate to the enemy the presence of a British tank formation.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Scalyback]

The only problem I see is noise. A tank within frontal vision of the enemy should be producing engine noise or firing weapons. I wonder if they had generators and machine gun crews near.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The only problem I see is noise. A tank within frontal vision of the enemy should be producing engine noise or firing weapons. I wonder if they had generators and machine gun crews near.

As yet, I have seen no evidence of any engines, generators or weapons being fitted to British Dummy Tanks, they appear to been used purely for their visual effect on the battlefield.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Dummy Tanks were not used just in France and Flanders, but also on the Balkan Front by the Bulgarians.

In the attached IWM photograph we see a Bulgarian made ' British Dummy Tank ', with the photograph having the following caption :-

" The Bulgarians were extremely nervous lest British tanks should appear against them. Behind their lines they constructed this dummy tank and instructed their troops in anti-tank methods of defence. "

The wooden framing on the Bulgarian ' British Dummy Tank ' is very similar in design and construction to those ' British ' Dummy Tanks made by the Germans.

LF

IWM34358 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The only problem I see is noise. A tank within frontal vision of the enemy should be producing engine noise or firing weapons. I wonder if they had generators and machine gun crews near.

This photograph, captioned as showing a Bulgarian ' British Dummy Tank ' somewhere on the Balkan Front, shows a Dummy Tank bristling with weapons which appear to be real ? However, this Dummy Tank's weight would have been considerable and extremely difficult to move, so again, it was probably used by the Bulgarians for training in anti-British Tank tactics.

This Dummy Tank would not have been armed for any offensive or defensive purposes, as any returned fire to such a flimsy wood and canvas structure would have resulted in the complete destruction of this Dummy Tank, and certain death for any occupants.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

Doubt it would have fooled the British. Did any tank look like this?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Doubt it would have fooled the British. Did any tank look like this?

As you say, a very crude version of a British Tank which would not have fooled anyone, let alone the British, and was probably used exclusively for training purposes by the Bulgarians.

Nevertheless, an interesting contraption.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

In addition to ' Dummy Tanks ' being used by the British Army on the battlefield, dummy tanks were also used in the design and construction process for new tank models. The tank's designers would first construct a full size wooden replica of the new tank, which would then be used for the production of the prototype tank.

The attached photograph shows a full sized ' Dummy ' wooden Mark IV Male Tank, produced at the Tank Corps' HQ Depot at Bovington.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

It's hard to believe it must have ended up as firewood eventually?

David

[Lancashire Fusilier]

It's hard to believe it must have ended up as firewood eventually?

David

David,

And today, it would be priceless.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Two examples of the Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Dummy Tank, one is probably British and the other is a German made version.

The first photograph shows a wheeled, wooden, horse-drawn ( the horse harness Swingletree is still attached ) Medium Mark A Dummy Tank, somewhere on the Western Front.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

French civilians examining a German made wooden dummy tank, presumably intended to resemble a British Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tank, found by the British in Lille, France. This photograph, is dated 20th October 1918.

This German made dummy tank, was probably used for training purposes.

LF

IWM9599 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

These dummy tanks could well have been used for training and tactics but nothing would have prepared the men for the noise of the engine, tracks and guns. Seeing one in the 'flesh' would have been an entirely different experience.

[phil@basildon]

French civilians examining a German made wooden dummy tank, presumably intended to resemble a British Medium Mark A ' Whippet ' Tank, found by the British in Lille, France. This photograph, is dated 20th October 1918.

This German made dummy tank, was probably used for training purposes.

LF

IWM9599 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

That part of Lille looks quite familiar from when I last visited the city 10-12 years ago. Does anyone know exactly where the photograph was taken.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Other uses for ' Dummy Tanks ' during WW1, were to advertise and promote the purchase of War Loan Bonds, and aid military recruitment. It is interesting to note that many of the examples of such ' Dummy Tanks ' showed up in the Dominions, particularly in Australia.

In Britain, real tanks were available for such parades and promotions, rather than the use of dummy tank replicas. Whereas in the far flung reaches of the Empire and in particular the vast expanses of Australia, the absence of real tanks, made the use of dummy tanks a necessity.

In the following series of photographs, we see several examples of dummy tanks being used for promotional purposes, with many of the photographs being taken in Australia. Some of the dummy tanks look extremely realistic, and others more fanciful.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Dummy Tank in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, promoting War Loan Bonds.

LF

AWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.