WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Uncle George]

The series of pictures of cars put me in mind of this, from Robertson's 'From Private to Field-Marshal'.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Two photographs of a British Dummy Tank, being man-handled through the narrow streets of a town somewhere of the Western Front.

LF

CNA This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[patrick Eggs]

Many thanks LF. re your post 3188 for all the extra details of this very special Rolls Royce project.

You have mentioned three other versions, Ex15 /Ex16/Ex17and these were bodied by Hooper ,Barker and Jarvis of Wimbledon.I have various bits of information from the past relating to odd cars , I think Ex 15 was written off in a high-speed crash on the Continent and the last two completed factory testing and were sold.

A few years ago an article in the Telegraph around 2009 , Andrew English,tries out Ex17 a rare 1920s experimental car and quotes , Blast from the past Ex17 needs plenty of space to get up to speed. The Boat -tail body work is by Jarvis of wimbledon and it includes a seperate passenger compartment with its own wind screen.

My interest in this is, Jarvis of Wimbledon , in the fifties I was a young Trainee with this Company and in the old records was a large photo album of all the special cars that were built by them ( also Ex17) in the early years many small Body / coachbuilders existed another around this area was Abbey at Merton, just down the road from Jarvis.

In the late thirty's Jarvis had a super large motor premises in the Morden Road on the edge of Wimbledon it was an Art Deco style of building with a large clock tower,curved glass windows on the showrom, Workshops coverering body shop ,paint shop and trimming work and full mechanical work covering all components, so all work was done in house.

At this time they were more known for thier work with MG and one of the Directors was Capt. George Eyston a well known record holder,( and still about in my time) also the little MG midget @ 100mph.

Att. some pictures of Ex17

Crimson Rambler.

.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

My interest in this is, Jarvis of Wimbledon , in the fifties I was a young Trainee with this Company and in the old records was a large photo album of all the special cars that were built by them ( also Ex17) in the early years many small Body / coachbuilders existed another around this area was Abbey at Merton, just down the road from Jarvis.

In the late thirty's Jarvis had a super large motor premises in the Morden Road on the edge of Wimbledon it was an Art Deco style of building with a large clock tower,curved glass windows on the showrom, Workshops coverering body shop ,paint shop and trimming work and full mechanical work covering all components, so all work was done in house.

At this time they were more known for thier work with MG and one of the Directors was Capt. George Eyston a well known record holder,( and still about in my time) also the little MG midget @ 100

They must have been extremely interesting times back in the 1950s, working on those magnificent cars.

Here is another photograph of EX 17, and also EX 1 and EX 16.

Regards,

LF

First photograph Rolls-Royce 17 EX.

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Rolls-Royce 16 EX.

LF

These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Rolls-Royce 1 EX.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

We have seen photographic evidence of British Dummy Tanks being used on the Western Front in France, and in the attached photograph we see British and French Dummy Tanks being used in Flanders.

The photograph, was taken in the town of Comines alongside the Armentieres - Comines - Courtrai railway line and shows 2 British Dummy Tanks and a Dummy French Char Renault FT 17 Tank.

The town of Comines in Flanders, is 7 miles south of Ypres, and was the scene of bitter fighting along the Ypres Salient.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A German made horse-drawn wheeled British ' Dummy Tank ', which was probably made for training in tactics and strategies to deal with British tanks on the battlefield. The Germans typically used vertical wooden planking to construct their Dummy Tanks.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[phil@basildon]

Could the dummy tanks in post 3207 be German? they have the same vertical boarding and other features of the German dummies.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Could the dummy tanks in post 3207 be German? they have the same vertical boarding and other features of the German dummies.

Phil,

That is certainly something that crossed my mind, particularly based on their German style vertical wooden planking construction.

I have been trying to find out if the town of Comines was in German hands for any particular length of time, prior to it having been taken/recaptured by the British/Allies. Those Dummy Tanks photographed by the railway line at Comines look well used, and or badly damaged.

I do have another photograph ( attached ) which shows a German ' British ' Dummy Tank captured by the British at Pontfaverger, a small town in the Marne region of N.E. France, in September 1918.

Again this German ' Dummy Tank ' has the vertical wooden planking construction, is wheeled, and also of note is the trap door entrance below the tank's sponson, which is again seen in the Dummy Tank in post #3207.

These similarities in design, would probably indicate that the British ' Dummy Tanks ' in post #3207 are German made.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

An interesting photograph, showing German soldiers pushing German Dummy Tanks based on the French Char Renault FT 17 Tank.

These lighter-weight Dummy Tanks are fitted with bicycle type wheels, and were probably used by the Germans for training and the development of tactics to deal with the French FT 17 Tanks.

The Dummy Tanks' numbered turrets, helped with identification during the war games or manoeuvres.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Rockdoc]

Another view of the Auto-Gun, from The Illustrated War News, dated Aug 4, 1915.

Caption reads:

ON A MOTOR-CAR; AND ABLE TO KEEP UP A CONTINUOUS FIRE OF SHELLS, LIKE A MAXIM : A FRENCH AUTO-GUN.

To the casual observer, the picture looks odd because you can't clearly see the barrel. The photo is badly staged because, although one of the detachment is sitting in a control position, the barrel is in the horizontal position for travelling. The auto-canone on the De Dion chassis is unlike the British equivalents because it was loaded from the ground whereas the British guns were operated almost entirely from the platform of the lorry. The French concept loses out in not being able to traverse through 360 degrees because the bodywork got in the way.

Keith

[Lancashire Fusilier]

To the casual observer, the picture looks odd because you can't clearly see the barrel. The photo is badly staged because, although one of the detachment is sitting in a control position, the barrel is in the horizontal position for travelling. The auto-canone on the De Dion chassis is unlike the British equivalents because it was loaded from the ground whereas the British guns were operated almost entirely from the platform of the lorry. The French concept loses out in not being able to traverse through 360 degrees because the bodywork got in the way.

Keith

Keith,

Here is a photograph of the French 75 mm Model 1897 Autocannon mounted on a De Dion chassis, showing the gun's barrel in the horizontal travelling position, facing forward and resting between the two front seats.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Rockdoc]

It's always nice to see photos like this because the usual ones, for obvious reasons, show them ready for action or in use.

Hogg and Thurston state that a small number were supplied to Britain for evaluation in late 1915 and a few barrels and recoil mechanisms were bought. Coventry Ordnance Works were commissioned to produce a suitable mounting, which held the barrel assembly in a balanced position. The French arrangement was an unbalanced one, with the mounting at the breech. All were considered obsolete by 1920.

Although not easy to see on this photo, the De Dion had six supporting pads - three on each side. There is a circular one just behind the dashboard and another at a slight angle at the rear of the vehicle. The other is the inclined, box-section structure running from the box behind the mudguard towards the rear wheel. That would be swung through 90 degrees and the sloping object between it and the underside of the turntable for the gun is the sprag to hold it in place.

Keith

[Lancashire Fusilier]

In addition to the British using Dummy Tanks on the battlefield, ' Dummy ' artillery was also used. In this photograph we see a camouflaged British Dummy Tank in position, and close by is a camouflaged British ' Dummy ' 15 inch Howitzer.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[wbremner]

It's always nice to see photos like this because the usual ones, for obvious reasons, show them ready for action or in use.

Hogg and Thurston state that a small number were supplied to Britain for evaluation in late 1915 and a few barrels and recoil mechanisms were bought. Coventry Ordnance Works were commissioned to produce a suitable mounting, which held the barrel assembly in a balanced position. The French arrangement was an unbalanced one, with the mounting at the breech. All were considered obsolete by 1920.

Although not easy to see on this photo, the De Dion had six supporting pads - three on each side. There is a circular one just behind the dashboard and another at a slight angle at the rear of the vehicle. The other is the inclined, box-section structure running from the box behind the mudguard towards the rear wheel. That would be swung through 90 degrees and the sloping object between it and the underside of the turntable for the gun is the sprag to hold it in place.

Keith

Keith, apologies if this one has been shown already, but it displays the supporting pads quite nicely. The photo is from the French GW forum "Pages 14-18".

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Keith, apologies if this one has been shown already, but it displays the supporting pads quite nicely. The photo is from the French GW forum "Pages 14-18".

Yes, that particular postcard was previously posted here on 23rd September 2013, and for those interested in the French 75 mm Autocannon mounted on the De Dion chassis, just enter ' De Dion ' in the search box shown in the very top right as ' Search............ this topic ', and that search will bring up lots of photographs and information on this particular French 75 mm AA Gun and the De Dion vehicle.

Regards,

LF

[wbremner]

Yes, that particular postcard was previously posted here on 23rd September 2013, and for those interested in the French 75 mm Autocannon mounted on the De Dion chassis, just enter ' De Dion ' in the search box shown in the very top right as ' Search............ this topic ', and that search will bring up lots of photographs and information on this particular French 75 mm AA Gun and the De Dion vehicle.

Regards,

LF

Thanks for clarifying, LF. I had searched for "Autocannon", "French Auto-Gun", and "75mm" but not "De Dion".

WB

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A German made wheeled ' British ' Dummy Tank, in use somewhere on the Western Front, which again shows the typical German wooden Dummy Tank construction.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Two photographs of a well made German Dummy Tank version of the French Char Renault FT 17 Tank, which was one of several such FT 17 Dummy Tanks found by British and Australian troops in the town of Charleroi following fierce fighting to capture the town.

Charleroi is located some 20 miles east of Mons, in the Wallonia region of southern Belgium.

LF

These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

2

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Australian troops who took part in the fighting to capture Charleroi, are photographed with 3 of the German made Dummy Tank versions of the French Char Renault FT 17 Tank found in Charleroi.

LF

AWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Scalyback]

Top stuff chaps!

A lot of ideas credited to the second world war had a start in the first. Dummy tanks as old as tanks!

[Rockdoc]

Why would the Germans build dummy Allied tanks? I know that they used captured examples but I'm still puzzled by these photos.

Keith

[GRANVILLE]

I guess several dummy allied tanks placed around strategic enemy positions would throw any ariel spotting going on with a tendency to assume the location must be in allied hands?

David