WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[GRANVILLE]

Fascinating series of photos.

David

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Fascinating series of photos.

David

David,

Thanks, and what a great shame if that Aycliffe Foden Steam Wagon was in fact scrapped back then, what a great restoration that would have made.

Regards,

LF

[GRANVILLE]

Changing subject somewhat, I've just picked this up via facebook: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=726029370850210&fref=nf

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Changing subject somewhat, I've just picked this up via facebook:

Great to see those mammoth German WW1 Tanks, actually on the move !

Regards,

LF

[wbremner]

2 excellent photographs of the French Auto-Gun in action during WW1 - Cigarette Card No.32

French Auto-Gun - Card No.32

Another view of the Auto-Gun, from The Illustrated War News, dated Aug 4, 1915.

Caption reads:

ON A MOTOR-CAR; AND ABLE TO KEEP UP A CONTINUOUS FIRE OF SHELLS, LIKE A MAXIM : A FRENCH AUTO-GUN.

French artillerists have nothing to learn, even from the best brains at Krupp's, in regard to the mechanism of guns. As to that, we have as a standing example the case of the famous "Soixant-Quinze," the 75mm. field-gun, the marvellous quick-firing capabilities of which have made the weapon the dread of the enemy on the battlefield. Our illustration shows another French gunner masterpiece, the auto-gun, mounted on its motor-carriage. With a larger calibre, it combines a rapid automatic action generally similar in action to the British 1 - pounder "pom-poms," whose continuous stream of small shells was so troublesome to our antagonists in the war against the Boers - now, happily, staunch and gallant fighters for the British Empire, as General Botha's kate campaign has proved.

Edited 8 February , 2015 by wbremner

[wbremner]

Bruce,

Who knows what the Boffins came up with 100 years ago, however many of those ideas which were thought very bizzare at the time, later proved invaluable, like the Tank!

Here is the text from the card :-

" These cars have done excellent work when the conditions for their use have been favourable. Mounted on the car is a very long gun which throws a grapnel hook over the enemy's barbed wire entanglements. The car is then started towards the rear, breaking down and tearing gaps in the wire defences; through these our soldiers are able to advance.

Several trenches have been captured by the aid of these cars, which pass over the British trenches on plank bridges ".

Seems very plausible ?

LF.

From the Illustrated War News, dated August 4th, 1915, this dramatic illustration was the issue's center-spread. The picture, and its caption, are close enough to your card # 2 to imagine that one influenced the other, but hard to tell which came first. This one is a Rolls-Royce, however.

The caption reads:

AN ARMOURED CAR "GRAPNELLING" ENEMY WIRE ENTANGLEMENTS : A BRITISH CAR AT GALLIPOLI UPROOTING AND TEARING DOWN THE BARBED-WIRE DEFENCES IN FRONT OF A TURKISH TRENCH. - Drawn by R. Caton Woodville.

Elsewhere in this number we illustrate a new French method of breaking down the enemy’s barbed-wire entanglements by means of grapnels fired from guns. Here we show a somewhat similar way of dealing with such obstructions, with the aid of an armoured car. The very incident illustrated above was recently described by a “ Times ” correspondent. “ On our side,” he writes, “ we can congratulate ourselves on a performance of the armoured motor-cars we are using against the enemy’s lines around Krithia. I am told that the capture of several Turkish trenches recently was due to the help of these cars. They darted towards the wire entanglements of the Turks, grappled the wires with iron hooks attached to them by short chains, and then, making full speed to the rear, tore down the entanglements over a length of 150 yards—a gap that was quickly filled with our soldiers in irresistible onset.” The R.N.A.S. armoured cars, it was reported, did good work with their machine-guns in the general attack on the Turkish trenches on June 4. They crossed the British trenches on temporary plank-bridges.

Edited 8 February , 2015 by wbremner

[Lancashire Fusilier]

From the Illustrated War News, dated August 4th, 1915, this dramatic illustration was the issue's center-spread. The picture, and its caption, are close enough to your card # 2 to imagine that one influenced the other, but hard to tell which came first. This one is a Rolls-Royce, however.

The caption reads:

AN ARMOURED CAR "GRAPNELLING" ENEMY WIRE ENTANGLEMENTS : A BRITISH CAR AT GALLIPOLI UPROOTING AND TEARING DOWN THE BARBED-WIRE DEFENCES IN FRONT OF A TURKISH TRENCH. - Drawn by R. Caton Woodville

wbremner,

Many thanks for following up on both cards Nos. 2 & 32, and providing excellent information on both.

With regard to Card No. 2 ( copy attached ) the Armoured Car fitted with the Grapnel Hook, whilst the card set was published in 1916, the artwork for the set presumably took some time to design and paint, so as you say, it is hard to know if the August 1915 Illustrated War News article was the basis for the card illustration or vice versa.

The cards' illustrator has based each card's artwork either on an actual photograph or as in the case of card No.2, probably the Illustrated War News article. What is interesting, is despite some of the vehicles shown in the set being extremely unusual and incredible, they did actually exist during WW1.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

One final example of a Foden Steam Wagon mounted with two ' Thresh ' Disinfectors, the photograph shows wagon No. S818 along with it's Driver and Fireman.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

wbremner,

Many thanks for following up on both cards Nos. 2 & 32, and providing excellent information on both.

With regard to Card No. 2 ( copy attached ) the Armoured Car fitted with the Grapnel Hook, whilst the card set was published in 1916, the artwork for the set presumably took some time to design and paint, so as you say, it is hard to know if the August 1915 Illustrated War News article was the basis for the card illustration or vice versa.

The cards' illustrator has based each card's artwork either on an actual photograph or as in the case of card No.2, probably the Illustrated War News article. What is interesting, is despite some of the vehicles shown in the set being extremely unusual and incredible, they did actually exist during WW1.

Regards,

LF

Aren't these cards where this thread started in the first place?!

David

[wbremner]

wbremner,

Many thanks for following up on both cards Nos. 2 & 32, and providing excellent information on both.

With regard to Card No. 2 ( copy attached ) the Armoured Car fitted with the Grapnel Hook, whilst the card set was published in 1916, the artwork for the set presumably took some time to design and paint, so as you say, it is hard to know if the August 1915 Illustrated War News article was the basis for the card illustration or vice versa.

The cards' illustrator has based each card's artwork either on an actual photograph or as in the case of card No.2, probably the Illustrated War News article. What is interesting, is despite some of the vehicles shown in the set being extremely unusual and incredible, they did actually exist during WW1.

Regards,

LF

I suspect the cigarette card illustration was based on this Jarrold armoured car, as profiled in a March 1915 issue of the IWN:

This blog states that only a prototype of the Jarrold was built, so if that is true, then the cigarette card illustration was perhaps inspired by the Cartoon Woodville illustration but (for whatever reason) used the Jarrold prototype as the basis for the car.

Edited 8 February , 2015 by wbremner

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Aren't these cards where this thread started in the first place?!

David

David,

Yes, 3 plus years ago, and hopefully still going strong.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I suspect the cigarette card illustration was based on this Jarrold armoured car, as profiled in a March 1915 issue of the IWN:

This blog states that only a prototype of the Jarrold was built, so if that is true, then the cigarette card illustration was perhaps inspired by the Cartoon Woodville illustration but (for whatever reason) used the Jarrold prototype as the basis for the car.

The Jarrold does have some of the features of the Armoured Car used in Card No.2, and I also suspect that some artistic licence was also used.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

To wrap up my posts on the Foden Steam Wagon, before moving on to a new topic, here is a photograph of Fodens' founder, Edwin Foden ( 1841 - 1911 ), plus a nice example of a vintage Fodens Limited letterhead.

LF

Edwin Foden

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Posted Today, 02:36 PM

An example of a vintage ' Fodens Limited ' letterhead, with the illustration of a Foden Steam Wagon.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Dummy Tanks

During World War I, Britain and her Allies constructed and used ' Dummy ' Tanks for various purposes, including their being used on the battlefield as decoys to draw enemy fire, or being strategically placed on the battlefield to deceive the enemy into thinking that the forces opposing them were much stronger and included significant numbers of tanks.

Also, during a Tank's design process, it was not unusual for a mock up or dummy tank to first be constructed, which was then used as the basis for the prototype tank's design.

Other uses for Dummy Tanks, also included their being used for training or for target practice.

Dummy Tanks were also often used both in Britain and overseas during WW1 for fund raising events and parades, and also at recruitment events.

Those Dummy Tanks produced on the Home Front, such as those constructed at Bovington or at Royal Engineer Depots, tended to be better built and more detailed and could be both metal and or wooded framed and were often mounted on four wheels to make them easier to move, and were sometimes horse-drawn when being moved into position.

Others, constructed in the ' Field ' tended to be less sophisticated, relying on whatever materials were available locally, and were often simple wooden frames covered in canvas and hand painted.

The Germans and other enemies were known to have constructed Dummy British Tanks, which they probably used for training purposes and to develop strategies to combat the threat posed by the British Tanks.

Over the coming days, I shall be posting photographs of various ' Dummy ' Tanks used for all the above mentioned purposes.

LF

The first two photographs, taken at a Royal Engineers Depot, show the wheeled wooden and metal frames around which the ' Dummy ' Tank would be constructed.

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Another example of a Royal Engineer's ' Dummy ' Tank frame.

LF

IWM17772 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Uncle George]

This is from 'The Australian Victories in France in 1918', by Sir John Monash:

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks13/1302421h.html#Image12

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This is from 'The Australian Victories in France in 1918', by Sir John Monash:

Uncle George,

A nice example of an in the ' Field ' Dummy Tank of wood and hand painted hessian canvas made by Australian troops of the 4th Field Company Engineers in the village of Le Catelet, which is 13 miles south of Cambrai and 11 north of St. Quentin in the Aisne region of North France.

This Dummy Tank was one of several built at Le Catelet in mid-September 1918, each weighing about a quarter of a ton. On 18th September 1918, the tanks were used during the attack by the 1st and 4th Australian Divisions on the Hindenburg Outpost Line near Le Verguier. The object of these dummies, was to mislead the Germans as to the number of tanks supporting the attack.

Regards,

LF

[wbremner]

I like this one from the IWM site, for various reasons. The caption reads "Australian soldiers carry a dummy tank near Le Catelet in France in September 1918. During the period of the war on the Western Front known as the Hundred Days – from August to November 1918 – tanks were a common element of British and Allied attacks. Dummy tanks such as this one were created to attempt to confuse German intelligence as to the actual whereabouts of the next attack. This reflected how the British planning of battles became increasingly sophisticated."

".

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I like this one from the IWM site, for various reasons. The caption reads "Australian soldiers carry a dummy tank near Le Catelet in France in September 1918. During the period of the war on the Western Front known as the Hundred Days – from August to November 1918 – tanks were a common element of British and Allied attacks. Dummy tanks such as this one were created to attempt to confuse German intelligence as to the actual whereabouts of the next attack. This reflected how the British planning of battles became increasingly sophisticated."

Excellent photograph, the Australians named that Dummy Tank ' Never Dyer '.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

There are several photographs in the series that were taken of Australian troops from the 4th Field Company Engineers constructing ' Dummy Tanks ' in the village of Le Catelet, which were then used during the attack by the 1st and 4th Australian Divisions on the Hindenburg Outpost Line near Le Verguier on 18th September 1918, here are the others.

The first photograph shows one of the Dummy Tanks under construction by the Australian Engineers, and we can see part of the basic wooden framework.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Australian troops from the 4th Field Company Engineers with one of their Le Catelet completed Dummy Tanks, ' E3 ' named ' Never Dyer '.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Another photograph of the Dummy Tank E3 ' Never Dyer ' weighing about a quarter of a ton, being moved into position at Le Catelet in September 1918.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A completed Dummy Tank, one of those made at Le Catelet, photographed in position for the the attack by the 1st and 4th Australian Divisions on the Hindenburg Outpost Line near Le Verguier on 18th September 1918.

This photograph, shows how effective these Dummy Tanks could be in deceiving the Germans.

LF

AWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[GRANVILLE]

They are so convincing, I can't imagine how any enemy flyers could ever have known if one was a dummy or not.