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Lancashire Fusilier

WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

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Lancashire Fusilier

5.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

I suspect that the dog cart shown above is not in military service. Looking at the load I suspect it being used by a merchant for delivering goods or as a tinkers cart to try and part the soldiers from their money.

Nigel

Nigel,

There are others to the right of the Dog Cart just out of the photo, it would be nice to see who those individuals are, soldiers or civilians ?

Regards,

LF

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Andrew Upton

Originally, the ' Lewis Cart ' was a hand-cart, and subsequently a horse-drawn version was introduced.

In the following series of photographs we can see the empty Lewis Cart, and also the various Lewis Machine Gun, tripod, spares and ammunition storage configurations used.

The first photograph shows the empty horse-drawn Lewis Cart.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

These, and the photos in posts 3069, 2070, 3072 and 3073 are of the cart for the Vickers gun, not the Lewis - note the MkIV tripod, and in particular the No.3 wooden ammunition boxes for belted ammunition (rather than drum ammunition).

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Lancashire Fusilier

These, and the photos in posts 3069, 2070, 3072 and 3073 are of the cart for the Vickers gun, not the Lewis - note the MkIV tripod, and in particular the No.3 wooden ammunition boxes for belted ammunition (rather than drum ammunition).

Andrew,

Many thanks, yes it was a generic horse-drawn ' Machine Gun Cart ' rather than a specific ' Lewis Gun ' cart, and I have edited accordingly.

Regards,

LF

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David Filsell

LF

Perhaps some Welsh people spell better in Welch?

David

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Lancashire Fusilier

LF

Perhaps some Welsh people spell better in Welch?

David

David,

Here is somebody's explanation for the two spellings, as it related to the Royal Welch Fusiliers.

Regards,

LF

" The Royal Welch Fusiliers was an infantry regiment of the British Army, part of the Prince of Wales' Division. It was founded in 1689 to oppose James II and to take part in the imminent war with France. The regiment was numbered as the 23rd Regiment of Foot, though it was one of the first regiments to be granted the honour of a fusilier title and so was known as The Welsh Regiment of Fusiliers from 1702. The "Royal" accolade was earned fighting in the War of the Spanish Succession in 1713.

It was one of the oldest regiments in the regular army, hence the archaic spelling of the word Welch instead of Welsh. In the Boer War and throughout the First World War, the army officially called the regiment "The Royal Welsh Fusiliers" but the archaic "Welch" was officially restored to the regiment's title in 1920 under Army Order No.56. During those decades, the regiment itself unofficially used the "Welch" form. The regiment was amalgamated with the Royal Regiment of Wales (RRW) on 1 March 2006, to become 1st Battalion, The Royal Welsh (RRW becoming the 2nd Bn).

The regiment primarily recruited from North Wales. It should not be confused with the Welch Regiment, which recruited from South and West Wales. "

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Uncle George

David,

Here is somebody's explanation for the two spellings, as it related to the Royal Welch Fusiliers.

Regards,

LF

" The Royal Welch Fusiliers was an infantry regiment of the British Army, part of the Prince of Wales' Division. It was founded in 1689 to oppose James II and to take part in the imminent war with France. The regiment was numbered as the 23rd Regiment of Foot, though it was one of the first regiments to be granted the honour of a fusilier title and so was known as The Welsh Regiment of Fusiliers from 1702. The "Royal" accolade was earned fighting in the War of the Spanish Succession in 1713.

It was one of the oldest regiments in the regular army, hence the archaic spelling of the word Welch instead of Welsh. In the Boer War and throughout the First World War, the army officially called the regiment "The Royal Welsh Fusiliers" but the archaic "Welch" was officially restored to the regiment's title in 1920 under Army Order No.56. During those decades, the regiment itself unofficially used the "Welch" form. The regiment was amalgamated with the Royal Regiment of Wales (RRW) on 1 March 2006, to become 1st Battalion, The Royal Welsh (RRW becoming the 2nd Bn).

The regiment primarily recruited from North Wales. It should not be confused with the Welch Regiment, which recruited from South and West Wales. "

Robert Graves' discussion of this in GtAT is well known but it is interesting that he refers to the Royal Welch Fusiliers, and to the Welsh Regiment.

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Lancashire Fusilier
This photograph shows Lewis Carts marked ' Devons ' belonging to soldiers from the Lewis gun section of the 8th Battalion, Devonshire Regiment, shown resting after an attack on the Germans near Fricourt, during the Battle of Albert, August 1916.
Fricourt is 3 miles east of Albert, in the Picardy region of Northern France.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier
British troops pulling their fully laden Lewis Cart through deep mud close to the Fricourt-Bray road during the Battle of Albert, a Machine Gun Corps tented camp can be seen in the background.

This photograph, is dated 7th August 1916.


LF



IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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phil@basildon

5.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

The last two photographs appear to be of the same cart but the second one with the tailboard closed and the negative reversed.

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Lancashire Fusilier

The last two photographs appear to be of the same cart but the second one with the tailboard closed and the negative reversed.

Phil,

All 5 photographs could be of just 2 Carts, taken at different times, with different stowing configurations.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

From the photographic evidence, we know that military Dog Carts were in use during WW1. However, from the very scarce number of photographs of German, French and British military Dog Carts ( with only one confirmed British Army use as yet ), we know the use of Dog Carts by these armies was extremely rare. Whereas, the Belgian Army were prolific users of Dog Carts to carry their machine guns and ammunition.

Typically, the Belgian Army used the powerfully built Matin-Belge ( Belgian Mastiff ) dog to haul the Dog Carts carrying their Maxim Machine Guns, there was also a second type of Dog Cart used to transport ammunition for the machine gun.

Although substantial numbers of the Belgian military Dog Carts were built during WW1, it is reported that unfortunately none of the original Machine Gun Dog Carts survive today, and only 2 of the original Ammunition Dog Carts still survive.

Made from light-weight tubular metal frames with 2 bicycle type wheels, the Belgian military Dog Carts pulled by a pair of dogs could successfully transport the Belgian Army's machine guns and ammunition.

Compared with the use of horses, the Belgian Army found that not only was it much cheaper to use dogs both from the initial purchase cost and the animal's upkeep costs, but also, on the battlefield the dog's much smaller and lower profile was a distinct advantage and also the dog's ease of control were also major advantages.

Over the next few days, I shall post various photographs of military Dog Carts in use during WW1.

LF

The first photographs show Belgian military Dog Carts hauling Maxim machine guns.

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Exhausted Belgian troops with their Maxim machine gun cart hauled by equally exhausted dogs, all resting during a lull in the fighting.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

A WW1 period coloured photo postcard showing both the Belgian Army's Maxim machine gun Dog Cart and the ammunition Dog Cart.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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patrick Eggs

What a great photograph ! do you have any details as to when and where it was taken ? As we know, these British Army ' Dog Cart ' photos are extremely scarce.

Many thanks for posting it.

Regards,

LF

Sorry LF

A pal of mine passed the dog cart photo to me , I think he found it on line if I get any more details I will keep you posted.

Crimson Rambler.

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Lancashire Fusilier

if I get any more details I will keep you posted

Many thanks, and even if it cannot be confirmed as a British Army Dog Cart, it is still a nice photo to have.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

I suspect that the dog cart shown above is not in military service. Looking at the load I suspect it being used by a merchant for delivering goods or as a tinkers cart to try and part the soldiers from their money.

Nigel

Nigel,

I found another larger version of the photograph shown in post # 3064, which is captioned as having been taken in Belgium, circa 1917, and as you suggested, the Dog Cart is not a British military Dog Cart.

The photograph shows British troops, several of whom are eating apples, buying food supplies from a Belgian vendor's Dog Cart stocked with baskets of food items etc.

Despite this Dog Cart not being British military, it is nevertheless a very interesting photograph.

Regards,

LF

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Lancashire Fusilier

The use of dog carts in Britain was apparently banned in 1841 so it's not really surprising that the military didn't use them.

Nigel

Nigel,

Here is some further information on the banning of Dog Carts in Britain from 1841, and given that it was illegal to use Dog Carts after 1841 ( 1839 in the City of London ), the photograph of the Welch Regiment, E. Coy's Dog Cart shown in post # 3056 is extremely rare, if not unique. Presumably, as the Welch Regiment were overseas at the time, they considered the use of the dog-drawn Machine Gun Cart to be outside of the jurisdiction of British Law.

Regards,

LF

" The Metropolitan Police Act of 1839 ordered that Dog Carts were not to be used within fifteen miles of Charing Cross.

The legislation stated:

"XXXIV. [Prohibition of Dog Carts.] And be it further enacted, That after the First Day of January next, every Person who within the City of London and the Liberties thereof shall use any Dog for the Purpose of drawing or helping to draw any Cart, Carriage, Truck, or Barrow, shall be liable to a Penalty not more than Forty Shillings for the First Offence, and not more than Five Pounds for the Second or any following Offence."

It was considered that the carts were cruel to dogs as they were liable to be overloaded; some owners unable to maintain a pony within London seemed to expect a dog to pull similar loads. The prohibition was also a measure thought to limit rabies as over-worked dogs were believed to be especially prone to contracting the disease. According to the medical journal 'The Lancet' in 1841, there had been a decline in the number of cases of rabies in London since the act was passed: "Whether the police or the Dog-Cart Act have had anything to do with the decline of hydrophobia, we cannot say".

Having banned dog-carts within London, a more general bill was introduced into Parliament in 1841, to ban the use of dog-carts throughout the kingdom. "

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Lancashire Fusilier

In addition to using a metal framed Dog Cart to transport their Maxim machine guns, the Belgian Army also used a different type of wooden Dog Cart to transport their Hotchkiss machine guns.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier
A Belgian dog-drawn Hotchkiss machine gun cart, in action during the Battle of Haelen.
Haelen was a small market town along the principal axis of advance of the German army and provided a good crossing point over the River Gete. The battle took place on 12 August 1914 between German forces, led by Georg von der Marwitz and the Belgian troops led by Leon de Witte, and resulted in a tactical victory for the Belgians.
LF
This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Another version of the Belgian dog-drawn Hotchkiss machine gun cart.

LF.

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Bombadier

Fascinating info on dog carts. Although banned in the UK, I can imagine that soldiers overseas would use what the locals used if necessary. I am sure there must be more pictures out there somewhere.

Nigel

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Lancashire Fusilier

3 additional period coloured photo postcards showing the Belgian Army's dog-drawn machine gun carts.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

2.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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Lancashire Fusilier

3.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

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