WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

At the end of WW1, surplus ex-WD vehicles were sold off at auction.

The attached photograph shows 2 FWD Model B lorry chassis, which were included in a large auction of ex-WD vehicles held at the Kempton Park Racecourse in the Winter of 1918. With their 4-wheel drive, the FWD would have been an excellent vehicle for the civilian market.

LF

These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

For my final two postings on the FWD Model B, here is a photograph of an American Army FWD Model B in service on the Western Front.

LF

These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

And finally, what I personally consider to be saving the best for last, a superb and rare photograph of two British Army FWD Model Bs used as Water Tankers, complete with Divisional/Unit markings. The ' checkerboard ' Divisional Emblem, I think is for the 34th Division, and hopefully someone will know which Unit used the ' Indian Chief ' insignia ?

LF

IWM These images are reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

With reference to the previous posts on the ' Decauville ' prefabricated light rail track system, the attached photograph shows French troops unloading and laying ' Decauville ' track. With the ' Decauville ' track being prefabricated and including both the rail and the sleeper, all that was required was for the ground to be prepared and for each section of track to be bolted together, making the laying of light rail lines remarkably quick and relatively easy.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[David Filsell]

Lancs

Excuse my ignorance but were the Decauville gauge the same as that used by British narrow gauge?

Regards

David

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Lancs

Excuse my ignorance but were the Decauville gauge the same as that used by British narrow gauge?

Regards

David

David,

Yes, they were the same. The British WW1 military light railway gauge was 600 mm ( 1ft 11.5/8 ins ) as was also the ' Decauville ' track gauge, making them compatible.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

were the Decauville gauge the same as that used by British narrow gauge?

David,

In addition to making the ' Decauville ' prefabricated rail tracks, the Decauville Company also made railway engines.

Here is a photograph showing a ' Decauville ' light railway line, and a ' Decauville ' engine used by the British Military ( Directorate of Forestry ) at the Army's sawmill in the Brotonne Forest in the Normandy region of Northern France.

Regards,

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[David Filsell]

Lancs

Your knowledge and the thread both continue to fascinate me.

Regards

Davis

[RobL]

Rod,

I feel ships are legitimate WW1 transport, and in keeping with this Thread. This current ' ship ' theme arose from my wanting to illustrate that whilst Thornycroft & Company were well known for their J-Type Lorry, they were also major shipbuilders during WW1, which personally, I found be to interesting. Which in turn led to my posts on Thornycroft's ' HMS Nubian, which again I thought was interesting from a WW1 mechanical prospective, as it was the first time the Royal Navy had joined two damaged ships together to form a new ship, which in turn led to a follower of this Thread asking a question regarding Scapa Flow, which is where we are today.

Anyway, staying with the ' Thornycroft ' theme, and an item which certainly has a few wheels, it is an interesting 1915 photograph showing a one week's production of the Thornycroft J-Type Lorry lined up in a road in Basingstoke, which was the location of the Thornycroft lorry factory.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

Just outside Basingstoke to be precise - Worting Road which I drive down every weekday

[RobL]

A post WW1 Albion A10, showing the revised radiator design.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

Although the radiator may be post war, the vehicle is 1916. Had a very enjoyable ride in the back of it earlier in the year too!

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Your knowledge and the thread both continue to fascinate me.

David,

I am pleased that you are continuing to enjoy this Thread, and every post is an interesting learning curve for me.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Just outside Basingstoke to be precise - Worting Road which I drive down every weekday

Although the radiator may be post war, the vehicle is 1916. Had a very enjoyable ride in the back of it earlier in the year too!

RobL,

I am pleased that you were able to identify that actual road, and that you had the chance to ride in that WW1 truck.

Regards,

LF

[phil@basildon]

Lancs

Excuse my ignorance but were the Decauville gauge the same as that used by British narrow gauge?

Regards

David

Before the war the British 'standard' for military light railways was 18 inches and this remained in use in some places up until after WW2, notably at Woolwich Arsenal. The French had standardised on 60 cm. and as this was in plentiful supply the British army adopted it as well. Several other gauges were adopted during the war, some seemingly illogical, 3 foot 6 inches was used in the UK and 2 foot 6 inches in East Africa. These 'odd' gauges may have been down to equipment available at the time. The Germans had also standardised on 60 cm.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Before the war the British 'standard' for military light railways was 18 inches and this remained in use in some places up until after WW2, notably at Woolwich Arsenal. The French had standardised on 60 cm. and as this was in plentiful supply the British army adopted it as well. Several other gauges were adopted during the war, some seemingly illogical, 3 foot 6 inches was used in the UK and 2 foot 6 inches in East Africa. These 'odd' gauges may have been down to equipment available at the time. The Germans had also standardised on 60 cm.

philw,

Many thanks for the information, and so there is no confusion 60 cm = 600 mm.

Although the ' Decauville ' track was made in both 500 mm and 600 mm, for the Western Front both the British and the French utilized the 600 mm track, the Germans also used the 600 mm track, which obviously proved useful with the ebb and flow of warfare, and the light rail system on the Western Front periodically changing hands.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Two more photographs of ' Decauville ' light railway engines.

Interestingly, the first photograph shows a ' Decauville ' engine used by the British on Gallipoli, indicating the wider use of the ' Decauville ' track by the British Army. The light rail engine was damaged by enemy fire, and is shown being repaired.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Again, showing the wide use by the British Army of ' Decauville ' 600 mm track and engines, this photograph shows a Decauville engine being used by the British Army in the Suez Canal area, unloading supplies at Ashton Post in 1916.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[ifanlloyd]

There were no light railways in Gallipoli where steam engines were used.. The ROD had ordered some 2ft 6ins stock for the Gallipoli campeign but it was never used.

The 2ft 6ins equipment was stored in Alexandria and eventually used in Palestine.

Great pictures.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

There were no light railways in Gallipoli where steam engines were used.. The ROD had ordered some 2ft 6ins stock for the Gallipoli campeign but it was never used.

The 2ft 6ins equipment was stored in Alexandria and eventually used in Palestine.

Great pictures.

ifanlloyd,

Many thanks for the follow up, and I am pleased to hear you are enjoying the photographs.

I took another look at the caption for the photograph in post # 2714, which reads " This Decauville engine with shot holes through it was used at Gallipoli and is now being repaired for use here ".

" Here " being the important word, implying not Gallipoli.

The caption refers to this engine as having been used at Gallipoli, however, it does not state that it was used at Gallipoli by the British Army, and it may well have been in civilian use.

The photograph was taken by a British Army officer in the Army Veterinary Corps and excellent War Photographer, with the wonderful name of Varges Ariel.

Varges Ariel worked with the Dunsterforce, and also took many, many excellent WW1 photographs in Salonika, Macedonia, Persia, Iraq, South Russia and the Caucasus, so that particular photograph taken " here " , could have been in any of those locations. Knowing that he had taken several photographs of the light rail in Salonika, that would be my guess for the location of that ' Decauville ' engine.

Attached is a photograph of British Army officer and War Photographer, Varges Ariel, taken in Salonika with some of his pets.

Regards,

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[David Filsell]

Phil

Thanks for the additional information.

David

[phil@basildon]

That steam locomotive looks like a German locomotive. Possibly captured at Gallipoli?

[BSM]

LF good evening and I note that the thread grows from strength to strength it would seem. Interesting mix of images with a couple almost taking one back in time. Again thanks for posting. In answer to your request on input for post #2702 - FWD markings. I would suggest that the chequerboard marking in actually the British 14th Corps which was a 4X4 (blue & white) design according to the RLC Museum collection. The 34th Div. from the same source was a 5X5 (black and white) design. The Formation first served in France moving to Italy in 1917 which your image would support. The BL prefix to the census number is also from that theatre leaving the "Indian's Head" Unit mark to ID. MH, another forum member may well put this one to bed! Regards.... Rod

[Lancashire Fusilier]

That steam locomotive looks like a German locomotive. Possibly captured at Gallipoli?

phil W,

You may be correct, the engine does have a name plate on its side, which unfortunately is too small to read.

At this time, all we have is the photographer's ' Decauville ' caption.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I would suggest that the chequerboard marking in actually the British 14th Corps which was a 4X4 (blue & white) design according to the RLC Museum collection. The 34th Div. from the same source was a 5X5 (black and white) design. The Formation first served in France moving to Italy in 1917 which your image would support. The BL prefix to the census number is also from that theatre leaving the "Indian's Head" Unit mark to ID. MH, another forum member may well put this one to bed! Regards.... Rod

Rod,

Many thanks for identifying the 14th Corps marking, and hopefully, someone with identify that very distinctive ' Red Indian Head ' unit marking.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The attached photograph shows two British 13 pdr Anti-Aircraft Guns mounted on Thornycroft J-Type Lorries, in action on the outskirts of Albert during the Battle of the Somme in July 1916.

The town of Albert, is located 17 miles N.E. of Amiens in the Somme Picardy region of Northern France.

The photograph also shows details of the various supplies and munitions used by the gunners, lying on the ground around their position.

Also of interest, and seen on the distant horizon between the two guns, is the tower of the Basilica of Notre-Dame de Brebières. The Basilica which was built between 1885 and 1895, had a tower, atop of which was a magnificent golden statue of the Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus aloft by sculptor Albert Roze, the statue was known as the “ Golden Virgin ”.

From the start of WW1, Albert was in French and British hands, and on January 15, 1915 the Basilica and its tower were hit by a German shells. The shelling caused the statue of the Madonna and Child to toppled and fall to an almost horizontal position, but amazingly the statute did not drop from the tower.

The toppled statue, which remained in that precarious horizontal position for most of WW1, gave rise to the legend that when the statue, which became known as " the Leaning Virgin ", falls from the tower, the war would end.

In March 1918, as part of the German ' Michael ' Somme offensive, the Germans captured Albert. The British were well aware that the Basilica's tower would make an excellent observation point for the Germans, so very reluctantly the decision was made for British artillery to shell and destroy the tower, and the subsequent shelling caused the golden statue to topple and finally fall to the ground.

Seemingly in line with the legend, the German occupation of Albert only lasted for a few months, until August 1918, when the British 8th Surrey Regiment recaptured Albert, with the war ending in November 1918.

After the War, the town of Albert was rebuilt, including the Basilica which was also reconstructed to its former glory by the original architect’s son, Eduoard Duthoit, A replica of the Golden Madonna and Child statue was erected on top of the tower in its original upright position.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A picture postcards showing the Basilica of Notre-Dame de Brebières in Albert before its destruction.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.