WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The revised version of the U.S. Army's FWD Model B 4-wheel drive 3 ton General Service Truck with the cast iron radiator, and the new style canvas.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

At the start of WW1, the British War Department began purchasing FWD 4-wheel drive Model B 3 tons trucks through their Agents, Gaston Williams & Wigmore, with FWD's frequently being used both as General Service Lorries and Artillery Tractors.

In the attached photograph we see a British Army FWD Model B hauling a 6-inch 30 cwt Howitzer of the Royal Garrison Artillery, which is being brought into position during the Battle of Mametz Wood in July 1916.

The small village of Mametz is located 20 miles N.E. of Amiens in the Somme, Picardy region of Northern France.

LF

IWM833 This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A British Army FWD 4-wheel drive 3 ton Model B truck, the chassis for which were shipped from the FWD factory in Clintonville, Wisconsin, U.S.A., and upon arrival in Britain, the truck's bodywork was supplied and fitted.

LF

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Mike_H]

Here's a photo of the IWM's restored FWD - no service history, brought back from France by a commercial restorer and later bought in un-restored condition by the Museum.

Mike

[GRANVILLE]

An interesting series of photographs. I particularly like the way the scale of the different wheels are demonstrated in the first photo. Drawing on earlier experience the wheelwrights produced a spoked wheel of a certain size - no doubt well proven to cope with the conditions of the day and the loads to be carried and hauled, in the main by horses. With the advent of the internal combustion engine, size and weight begins to matter considerably and so the wheel becomes much smaller and shod with pneumatic or solid rubber tyres. The principle of 4WD is obviously going to aid the ability of the truck, but I can't help suspecting it's abilities were still very limited hence the use of chains and the way the truck, limber and gun are actually being driven along a timber causeway, as I suspect it would quite easily bog itself down on soft open ground?

David

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The principle of 4WD is obviously going to aid the ability of the truck, but I can't help suspecting it's abilities were still very limited hence the use of chains and the way the truck, limber and gun are actually being driven along a timber causeway, as I suspect it would quite easily bog itself down on soft open ground?

David

David,

FWD's claim was that its 4-wheel drive vehicle " could go anywhere a horse can go ", which 100 years ago, was a significant claim from a motor company.

Here is an early FWD advertisement promoting that comparison between a horse and their 4-wheel drive vehicle.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here's a photo of the IWM's restored FWD - no service history, brought back from France by a commercial restorer and later bought in un-restored condition by the Museum.

Mike

Mike,

A superbly restored FWD Model B at Duxford, thanks for posting.

Here is another excellent restoraton of a FWD Model B, used as an Ammunition Carrier.

LF

[johnboy]

Is it likely to have been used in 'camo' during the war?

[David Filsell]

Not saying yes or no. But I cannot off hand remember seeing any other photographs of British military transport vehicles in this type of camouflage. Someone may "know different" of course

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Is it likely to have been used in 'camo' during the war?

johnboy,

The answer is yes, and typically, those undertaking a quality and highly expensive restoration are usually working from original photographs so as to get their restored vehicle to an, as authentic, original condition as possible, and I have several photographs of this WW1 camouflage pattern in use.

Attached, is a photograph of 4-wheel drive trucks leaving the ' Kissel ' Motor Company's factory in the U.S., having already had the camouflage paint scheme applied at the factory.

FWD were unable to cope with the flood of orders for their Model B 4-wheel drive truck, so they sub-contracted their Model B's manufacture to other American motor car manufacturers, one such company being the Kissel Motor Company.

Founded by German immigrants, and orginally known as ' Kissel Kar ', at the start of WW1, and because their name sounded too German, the ' Kar ' portion was dropped, and the company name was changed to the Kissel Motor Company.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Two postcard photographs showing FWD 4-wheel drive Model B truck chassis leaving the FWD factory in Clintonville, Wisconsin, U.S.A., and being loaded onto flat rail wagons, with many headed for the Western Front.

The FWD chassis used by the British Army, arrived in Britain still in their battleship grey paint scheme applied in the FWD factory. On arrival in Britain, the FWD chassis were fitted with their bodywork and repainted with their WD paint scheme.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[BSM]

Per usual LF, a nice group of images from various sources. Re your #2601, the attached adds a bit more info or possibly raises a few questions! Rod

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Per usual LF, a nice group of images from various sources. Re your #2601, the attached adds a bit more info or possibly raises a few questions! Rod

Rod,

That flyer contains several errors, and could not have been the first Canadian ' Gun Tractor ' as FWD did not open their Canadian joint venture factory with the Dominon Truck Company in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada until 1919.

I assume the flyer was Canadian !

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

possibly raises a few questions! Rod

Rod,

Here is an extract from a local Canadian newspaper report published in the ' The Waterloo Region Record ' in April 1919.

" Scores of automotive industry executives attended a six-day Kitchener Auto Show that was billed as the only event of its kind in Ontario that spring.

Even as it began, the Four Wheel Drive Auto Co. of Clintonville, Wis., was getting set to build a Kitchener plant where in the years to come it would prepare FWD trucks from its U.S. factory for sale north of the border."

Regards,

LF

[David Filsell]

So a US 'only' camouflage scheme?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

So a US 'only' camouflage scheme?

David,

No, not exclusively a ' U.S. ' camouflage pattern, although the FWD Ammunition Carrier shown in post # 2606 is a U.S. Army vehicle.

There are also examples of the British using a very similar camouflage paint scheme on their vehicles and guns, and in the attached photograph, we can see such a camouflage paint scheme on a convoy of British ' Thornycroft ' lorries mounting 13 pdr. Anti-Aircraft Guns, and also another of a British ' Peerless ' Lorry mounted with a 13 pdr. Anti-Aircraft Gun, again painted with that similar camouflage paint scheme. I have other photographs of British armoured vehicles and heavy artillery, also painted with that same style of camouflage paint scheme.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[BSM]

LF don't disagree. I have a bound copy of the "Times Histroy of the War" which contains a copy of the image plus a caption along the same lines you posted. Thanks for the additional info re the flyer which came from a 'web' source and the FWD factory set up in Canada. Another unexplained and inaccurate curiosity. Rod

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A British ' Peerless ' Lorry mounted with a 13 pdr Anti-Aircraft Gun, painted with a similar camouflage paint scheme.

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Thanks for the additional info re the flyer which came from a 'web' source and the FWD factory set up in Canada. Another unexplained and inaccurate curiosity. Rod

Rod,

That is a nonsensical article for any Canadian to produce, claiming that FWD Model B truck shown in the Imperial War Museum photograph to be ' Canadian ' and made in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada in 1916. Obviously, they did not bother to check their homework!

Rych Mills of the local Historical Society, wrote a book on the history of Kitchener ( Berlin ) 1880 - 1960. Interestingly, Kitchener was originally called ' Berlin ' as there was a substantial German immigrant population in the area. However, due to anti-German feeling at the start of WW1, the town of ' Berlin ' had a name change to Kitchener ( far more patriotic ). In part of his book, there is a photograph of one of the first FWD 4-wheel truck manufactured in Kitchener in 1919, along with the following caption, which gives us an accurate 1919 date for the opening of the FWD factory in Kitchener.

" A Henry Nyberg arrived in Berlin in 1913 with a plan to turn Berlin into an automobile manufacturing hub. He purchased much of Jacob Shantz's old farm on the south side of King East in the Borden-Ottowa vicinity. His own Canadian Regal Motors kicked off the " auto boom " but when war came, Regal closed and Nyberg opened Dominion Truck.

Four Wheel Drive ( FWD ) of Wisconsin was producing sturdy adaptable trucks, when approached by Nyberg to set up in Berlin. By 1919, Four Wheel Drive trucks rolled off the line. "

Other documents show that FWD's factory opened in Kitchener in the Winter of 1919, and by 1920 FWD advertisements were showing that FWD also had a subsidiary factory in Kitchener.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[johnboy]

Looks like an early side tipper.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Looks like an early side tipper.

johnboy,

The 2 pulleys located behind the driver, activated the tipper body to either side.

After WW1, FWD produced a whole range of FWD 4-wheel drive commercial trucks with different body options, including the side-tipping truck. Attached are a series of drawings from an FWD brochure, showing some of their new FWD truck body designs.

Regards,

LF

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

[David Filsell]

I stand suitably corrected!

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I stand suitably corrected!

David,

Certainly not a correction, merely pointing out that the British were also a bit flamboyant with the camouflage paint schemes.

Regards,

LF