WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[MerchantOldSalt]

Just hazarding a guess, but I don't think the bird's nest of wires, blocks and tackle passing over the sheaves (pulleys) on the towers are to do with the steering. If you look at the picture in 5622 you can see that the steering is operated by a standard traction engine type rod, screw and quadrant which turns the axle by chains wrapped around a transverse shaft between the chassis rails.  In photo  in 5619 the two steersmen are quite obvious sitting at their respective steering wheels, being almost side by side communication would be relatively easy despite what must have been a horrific noise.

 

I think the clue is in the photo in 5625, the steering wheels are off the ground being held up by the wires and blocks clearly attached to the chassis rails.  If the vehicle was expected to make any attempt at crossing a trench then this would be necessary to prevent the steering wheels from plunging into the trench and immobilizing the vehicle.  This way the steering wheels can be pushed out across the trench, in the air,  to the opposing parapet and support the remaining part of the tractor as the tracks cross the void.  The wire and pulley system joins both tractors together so that as the first tractor crosses the trench the second following tractor supports it somehow.  The cylindrical object sticking out above the track in 5625 looks to me like a powered  warping drum or capstan around which the wire would be wound to tighten up the whole block and tackle system.

 

It is not easy to trace the route of the wire through the pulley system so how exactly it might have worked is not obvious but the wires are definitely attached to the chassis rails and not the steering.  Suffice to say operating the system would have been a nightmare.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[johnboy]

I thought roughly the same. Then I wondered if the wheels would steer a track driven machine. The wheels seem too small to be able to steer a heavy tracked machine and don't look able to take the force needed. Normally, these days, the locking of one track steers the  machine. Is it known that the wheels actually did the steering or were just used for 'balancing'.?

[GRANVILLE]

The front wheels would provide steering in just the same way the American Holt with it's single wheel to the front relied on this to help steer the machine. I like the idea of the wires and pulley being there to raise the front wheels but as you can see the front axle is fixed to the chassis by an elliptical leaf spring which is not designed to be raised. It's the way the wires are taken up and over and across to the second machine that lead me to conclude that as an action it taken at the front, there must be a reaction on the rear machine?

 

David

Edited 22 November , 2016 by GRANVILLE

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Another photograph taken during the Burton-on-Trent June 1915 trials, showing details of the coupled pair of Bullock Creeping Grip Tractors and also on the right, can be seen officers and men from the RNAS Armoured Car Divsion's 20th Squadron who conducted the trials.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

 

Edited 22 November , 2016 by Lancashire Fusilier

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The next two photographs show excellent details of the difference between the standard commercial ' Bullock Creeping Grip ' tracks used for the Burton-on-Trent trials, which had a configuration of 3 upper guide wheels and 4 small lower road wheels, as compared with the specially designed and constructed much longer ' Bullock ' tracks used for the first Tritton & Wilson ' Landship ' prototype, which had a configuration of 5 upper guide wheels and 8 small lower road wheels.

The decision to substantially enlarge the ' Bullock ' tracks, was based on the performance of the tracks during the June 1915 Burton-on-Trent trials.

 

The first photograph shows the shorter 3 - 4 track configuration used at Burton-on-Trent.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The specially lengthened 5 - 8  ' Bullock Creeping Grip ' tracks used for Tritton & Wilson's first prototype ' Landship ' built by William Foster & Co. Ltd.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The August 1915 Burton-on-Trent ' Elephant Legs ' Project

 

David, Tony & johnboy, your analysis of the dual Bullock Creeping Grip Tractors was extremely interesting, and here is another British WW1 ' Landship ' project which certainly fits with the adage " necessity is the mother of invention ".

 

One of the main problems arising from the Burton-on-Trent June 1915 ' Bullock Creeping Grip ' track trials, was the inability of the shorter commercial length Bullock tracks to traverse a 5 foot wide ditch successfully, a problem which was eventually resolved by Lt. W. Wilson designing a much longer set of tracks.

However, prior to Lt. Wilson formulating his design for the lengthened tracks, experiments continued at Burton-on-Trent during August 1915 in an attempt to overcome the problem, and one of the ' inventions ' worked on, was a design which supplemented the tracks with a set of what were described as wooden ' Elephant Legs ', and as bizarre as such a project may sound, it was certainly taken seriously at the time, and a prototype was designed, constructed and trials of the ' Elephant Legs ' attached to the Bullock Creeping Grip Tractor actually took place during August 1915 at Burton-on-Trent.

 

I shall be posting an extremely interesting series of photographs documenting the August 1915 Burton-on-Trent ' Elephant Legs ' trials, with this first photograph showing a good overall view of the iron girder frame supporting the 6 wooden ' Elephant Legs ' which were attached to the Bullock tractor, the idea being that the ' Elephant Legs ' would literally ' walk ' the tracked Landship over any encountered obstacle, such as a ditch or trench.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

Edited 24 November , 2016 by Lancashire Fusilier

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A nice overall view of the Bullock Creeping Grip Tractor fitted with wooden ' Elephant Legs ' ( one leg missing ), attempting a ditch crossing during the August 1915 trials held at Burton-on-Trent.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

 

 

 

[GRANVILLE]

LF. Utterly fascinating and about as clear as the mud the machine is trying to travel across! I admit I can't yet figure out how this would have worked even in theory!

David

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1 hour ago, GRANVILLE said:

LF. Utterly fascinating and about as clear as the mud the machine is trying to travel across! I admit I can't yet figure out how this would have worked even in theory!

David

 

David,

 

Burton-on-Trent was certainly a very interesting place to be in the Summer of 1915, and it is quite amazing that British invention and innovation took the British Army from the experiments carried out in the fields of Burton-on-Trent and Lincolnshire in 1915 to the attached superb Mk. IV Churchill Tank in just a couple of decades.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

 

[GRANVILLE]

LF,

Astonishing pace of development, brilliantly demonstrated.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here are some additional photographs taken of the Landship ' Elephant Legs ' project trials, conducted at Burton-on-Trent during August 1915.

It would appear that the ' Elephant Legs ' were intended to act as a crutch or support to give the Bullock Creeping Grip tracks additional momentum when climbing out of a ditch or trench.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

Edited 25 November , 2016 by Lancashire Fusilier

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

 

[GRANVILLE]

I can imagine some choice words used when they were trying to make use of that contraption!

 

David

Edited 25 November , 2016 by GRANVILLE

[Lancashire Fusilier]

4 hours ago, GRANVILLE said:

I can imagine some choice words used when they were trying to make use of that contraption!

 

David,

 

I am sure that along with a few choice words, a great deal of the local Worthington Pale Ale was also consumed, while answers to the problems were duly considered, and I think the three men seen by the fence in the previous post, were probably in problem solving mode, glasses in hand.

 

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Although the first Tritton & Wilson ' Landship ' prototype, which debuted at Lincoln on 19th September 1915, was heavily covered with tarpaulins to conceal it's design, fortunately, a very rare photograph exists, which was taken inside William Foster & Co. Ltd's Lincoln factory, which clearly shows the first ' Landship ' prototype under construction, complete with it's original turret.

This rare photograph is probably the only existing photograph clearly showing the prototype's turret, as after completion of the September 1915 Lincoln trials, the turret was removed and never replaced.

 

The first photograph shows the original Tritton & Wilson ' Landship ' prototype being tested at Lincoln on 19th September 1915, and although the machine's structure is hidden under tarpaulins, it is possible to make out the shape of the large circular turret mounted atop the hull and the turret's protruding gun barrel.

 

LF

 

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

Edited 26 November , 2016 by Lancashire Fusilier

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This rare photograph, taken inside William Foster & Co. Ltd's Lincoln factory, shows the first Tritton & Wilson ' Landship ' prototype under construction, and clearly shows the original large circular turret mounted atop the hull, which following completion of the September 1915 Lincoln trials was removed, and not replaced.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A very nice artist's impression of the Tritton & Wilson first ' Landship ' prototype, showing the large circular turret fitted atop the hull, which was subsequently removed following completion of the September 1915 Lincoln trials and not replaced.

For Tritton & Wilson's next ' Landship ' prototype ' Little Willie ', to replace the weight lost by removing the large circular turret, concrete slabs equal to the turret's weight, were attached to the side of Little Willie's tracks.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised

 

[MBrockway]

Not motorised, but this horse drawn pigeon loft complements the images of motorised pigeon lofts/converted omnibuses higher up the thread!

 

Looks like 'Ruston' on the side, but I'm unsure if that is the same Ruston of tank development and aeroplane fame.

 

Drivers are sporting signallers armbands and are those RE cap badges?

 

It's from the 1919 Lord Mayor's Show.

 

Image details here: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/3138628

 

Edited 27 November , 2016 by MBrockway

[MBrockway]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but from the same source, here's a nice crisp picture of several vehicle mounted anti-aircraft guns reportedly (the captions are not always reliable) manned by Canadians from the 1915 Lord Mayor's Show.  There's also a mounted searchlight a few vehicles further back.

 

Image details here: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/3063061

 

 

 

The searchlight appears in another picture from a different location in the same parade.

 

Image details here: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/3063058

 

 

Edited 27 November , 2016 by MBrockway

[Dave1418]

Post 5645

Nice to see the City policeman with his trio of medals on display also

[Modelmaker]

Fascinating stuff, as it happens a while ago I gave a lecture to our local Military History Group at the U3A (University of the Third Age).

When I put up the title page "British Tank Development from 1915 to 1939" an audible groan from the female audience was heard....they were about 30% of the audience.

The talk lasted 2 hours at he end of which there was a massive (and appreciated) round of applause..the female members actually took the time to thank me on what was a very informative presentation. I had included a lot of the early WW1 stuff and the Pedrail. Going through the various websites I was able to show a lot of the non too successful attempts and the rather pitiful inter-war types.

Looking at these, I am reminded of that time.....I enjoyed giving the presentation and the response made it all worthwhile.

 

George.

[GRANVILLE]

Am wondering what has happened to this thread which I have visited every day for as long as I can remember - always fascinating but it has clearly stopped in its tracks??

 

David

[MikeyH]

Yes, no posts from Lancs. since November 26th, hope that he is o.k.

 

Mike.

[Gardenerbill]

On his profile he last visted the site 1st December.