WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards

[Mike_H]

LF

As an aside the IWM Munitions collection holds four percussion tubes used in Boche Buster's firings during the King's visit.

 

Mike

 

Edited 22 October , 2016 by Mike_H

[Lancashire Fusilier]

On 10/22/2016 at 09:55, Mike_H said:

As an aside the IWM Munitions collection holds four percussion tubes used in Boche Buster's firings during the King's visit.

.

Mike,

The IWM also has a WW1 14 inch shell on display as would have been used for the 14 inch Railway Guns, Boche Buster and Scene Shifter, and it is shown in the centre of the 3 shells in the attached photograph, and comes with the following information :-

 

" Although not a standard calibre, the 14-inch guns were used by both the Royal Navy and the British Army during the First World War. 

The Army's 14-inch guns had originally been manufactured for Japan. Accepted by the War Office in 1916, they were mounted as railway guns and issued to the Royal Garrison Artillery, arriving in France in May 1918. Although the guns performed well, firing a 1400 lb ( 630 kg ) shell a distance of 38,000 yards ( 34580 m ) spares and replacement parts were unavailable, resulting in the guns becoming obsolete in 1926.

The only British ship to have 14-inch armament during the period was the battleship HMS Canada."

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

Edited 23 October , 2016 by Lancashire Fusilier

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This photograph of soldiers standing alongside 14 inch shell, gives a good idea of the shell's comparative dimensions.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The 14 inch BL Railway Gun H.M.G. Scene Shifter complete with it's camouflaged ammunition wagon, and with it's barrel at the maximum 40 degree elevation, in position at Camiers near Etaples in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of Northern France.

 

LF

 

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

 

 

[peterjohndye]

I had always understood that it was only the US and Canadian Armies that employed the Harley-Davidson in WW1, however, the attached photographs suggest that at least one sidecar combination was used by the BEF.

 

The details on the image details suggest a RAF support unit somewhere in France in late 1918.

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A nicely detailed photograph showing a 3/4 front view of the 14 inch BL Railway Gun ' H.M.G. Scene Shifter ' and it's Ammunition Wagon seen at the end of WW1 in the railway siding a Camiers near Etaples in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region of Northern France, along with some of the gun's Officers and men.

 

The railway locomotive on the gun's left is marked ' R.O.D. ' as belonging to the Railway Operating Division, which was the unit of the Royal Engineers responsible for the operation of the British railway system on the Western Front.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

[MerchantOldSalt]

Well LF, if you are going to bring in train spotting , here is Boche Buster on the day of the King's Shoot with an ETAT Belge Type 30 locomotive with ROD crew in charge.  The locomotive in your photo at Camiers is an American built Baldwin 2-8-0 also used by the British.

 

Tony

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2 hours ago, peterjohndye said:

I had always understood that it was only the US and Canadian Armies that employed the Harley-Davidson in WW1, however, the attached photographs suggest that at least one sidecar combination was used by the BEF.

The details on the image details suggest a RAF support unit somewhere in France in late 1918.

 

peterjohndye,

 

Thank you for posting those two very interesting and unusual photographs.

 

With several British motorcycle manufacturers such as Triumph, Douglas, Phelon & Moore and Scott, to name but a few, supplying significant numbers of motorcycles to the British military during WW1, there would have been no need to import additional American motorcycles for British military use.

 

However, once America entered into WW1 some 20,000 or more American made Harley Davidson and Indian motorcycles were sent overseas for use by the American forces, notably on the Western Front. Therefore, it would not have been out of the question for a few American motorcycles, as can be seen from your photographs, to have ended up in British hands either officially or unofficially, and whilst I have seen evidence of the odd American motorcycle being used by the British, I have seen no photographic evidence to suggest their having been officially used in any significant numbers by the British during WW1.

 

There is photographic evidence, of Harley Davdison motorcycles being supplied to the Russians in much larger numbers.

 

Regards,

LF

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

25 minutes ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

Well LF, if you are going to bring in train spotting , here is Boche Buster on the day of the King's Shoot with an ETAT Belge Type 30 locomotive with ROD crew in charge.  The locomotive in your photo at Camiers is an American built Baldwin 2-8-0 also used by the British.

Tony

 

Tony,

 

Many thanks for posting that excellent photograph, and giving the additional ' train ' information.

For my part, typically anything WW1 with wheels or an engine, including trains, has been suitable material for posting here, particularly R.O.D. trains, and hopefully we shall see more, especially if they are hauling Railway Guns.

 

Regards,

LF

[peterjohndye]

LF,

 

Thank you.

 

Although the RFC was allocated the majority of P&M, the RAF's total holdings at the end of the war was about 1,000 higher. The additional machines appear to have been a mixture of types. I can only assume that a Harley-Davidson crept in somewhere....

 

Peter

[Lancashire Fusilier]

This metal maker's plaque is listed by the Imperial War Museum as having been removed from the 14 inch Railway Gun ' H.M.G. Boche Buster ' after the end of WW1, with the plaque reading :-

 

SIR WG ARMSTRONG - WHITWORTH & Co LTD ELSWICK WORKS NEWCASTLE 1918

 

LF

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

1 hour ago, peterjohndye said:

I can only assume that a Harley-Davidson crept in somewhere....

Peter

 

Peter,

I am sure you are correct, and no doubt the odd American Harley and or Indian motorcycle, which were probably considered desirable, were added to the inventory either officially or unofficially.

 

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Following the end of WW1, both the 14 inch Railway Guns H.M.G. Boche Buster and H.M.G. Scene Shifter were returned England, with the guns themselves being declared obsolete in 1926 and subsequently scrapped.

However, their railway mountings were retained, and in 1920 were brought back into service as the mounts for the massive 18 inch BL Railway Howitzer Mk I, which although having been designed, constructed and proof-fired towards the end of WW1, was not ready for service until after the end of WW1 and was officially introduced into service in April 1920.

 

The 85 ton 14 cwt 18 inch Gun was again manufactured by the Elswick Ordnance Company, and complete with it's 164 ton 14 cwt WW1 railway mount, totalled a massive 250 plus tons, making it the heaviest mobile ordnance emplaced in British Land Service.

 

Having been used for training during the 1920s, the 18 inch guns and their railway mounts were retired and placed in storage.

 

Following the outbreak of WW2, in 1940 the railway mounts were once again brought back into service, and my understanding is that one of the original 14 inch Railway Gun mounts named H.M.G. Boche Buster was fitted with the 18 inch BL Howitzer Mk I, and the railway mount named H.M.G. Scene Shifter was fitted with a 13.5 inch Railway Gun.

 

The 18 inch BL Railway Howitzer Mk I named H.M.G. Boche Buster was assigned to the 11th Battery, 2nd Super Heavy Regiment based in the Bourne Park railway tunnel at Bishopsbourne on Kent's Elham Valley railway line connecting Folkestone and Canterbury, which was taken over by the British Army and closed to the public for the duration of WW2, with H.M.G. Boche Buster being intended for auxiliary coastal defence along the Channel coast.

The 18 inch Railway Howitzer Mark I, fired a hefty 2500 lb 6 foot long shell 22,300 yards ( 12 miles ) making it's range too short for cross-Channel bombardment.

 

H.M.G. Boche Buster remained at Bishopsbourne until March 1944, and following the June 1944 Normandy invasion, there were plans for H.M.G. Boche Buster to be shipped to France to carryout bombardment of German positions, however, severe logistical problems and tactical issues caused the plan to be abandoned.

 

Following the end of WW2, the 18 inch Railway Howitzer Mk I was declared obsolete in 1945, and after being fitted to a proof mounting, it was sent to the Army's Shoeburyness Experimental Establishment

 

This first photograph dated 12th December 1940, shows the 250 ton 18 inch BL Railway Howitzer Mk I fitted to it's WW1 vintage railway mount named ' H.M.G. Boche Buster ' complete with it's Ammunition Wagon at Catterick prior to travelling down to Kent to take up position at Bishopsbourne on the Elham Valley railway line.

 

LF

 

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Continuing to track the history of the WW1 Railway Gun ' Boche Buster ' and it's original railway mounting, the attached photograph has two interesting connections with WW1.

 

Firstly, this photograph taken in the latter part of WW2,  shows the 18 inch BL Railway Howitzer Mk I on it's WW1 railway mounting named ' Boche Buster ' positioned in the railway siding at Halwill Junction in Devon during ' Boche Buster's ' journey from Kent to the Okehampton Artillery Range on Dartmoor, where the 18 inch Railway Howitzer was to undergo testing and evaluation for possible use in Europe following the Normandy Landings.

 

Secondly, I believe one of the British Army Officers shown in this photograph ( probably either 2nd or 4th from the left ) is Lieutenant Colonel Stewart Montagu Cleeve, who as a Major, was Boche Buster's original Battery Commander during WW1  and following the outbreak of of WW2, Cleeve, who at the time was stationed in Hong Kong, was recalled by Winston Churchill to organise the resuscitation of the heavy artillery guns which had been hidden all over England since the signing of the WW1 Armistice. Cleeve was fortunate in finding the original Boche-Buster from the 1914-18 war and when it was reassembled at Dover, the order to fire was given personally by King George VI.

 

Also of note, is the Gun's ' Tompion ' ( Muzzle Cover ) carrying the Royal Coat of Arms.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

 

[johnboy]

Captioned ' Boche Buster at Bourne park Tunnel Bishopsbourne 1941

 

 

 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

5 minutes ago, johnboy said:

Captioned ' Boche Buster at Bourne park Tunnel Bishopsbourne 1941

 

johnboy,

 

The 18 inch BL Railway Howitzer Mk I named H.M.G. Boche Buster was assigned to the 11th Battery, 2nd Super Heavy Regiment, and for the gun's protection against German aerial attack, it was housed in the Bourne Park railway tunnel at Bishopsbourne on Kent's Elham Valley railway line connecting Folkestone and Canterbury, which was taken over by the British Army and closed to the public for the duration of WW2, with the gun being hauled in and out of the tunnel's North and South portals as needed.

 

Attached are two photographs, one showing the Bourne Park tunnel's North portal as it is today, and the other shows the interior of the Bourne Park tunnel looking towards the North portal, again as it is today.

The railway line itself, was closed in the late 1950s/60s and the tracks were removed.

 

Regards,

LF

 

 

These images is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

 

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The interior of the Bourne Park railway tunnel, looking towards the North portal, which housed and protected ' H.M.G. Boche Buster ' against German aerial attack during WW2,

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

[johnboy]

It is amazing how many WW1 pics of railway guns there are. Is it known how many [all sides] there were?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

24 minutes ago, johnboy said:

It is amazing how many WW1 pics of railway guns there are. Is it known how many [all sides] there were?

 

johnboy,

 

One on-line resource lists WW1 Railway Guns by country, model, and calibre, with a total of 32 Railway Guns listed. The French being the most prolific users, and here is a breakdown of that 32 number :-

 

France 16

Germany 8

Great Britain 4

United States 3

Italy 1

 

Regards,

LF

[johnboy]

Thanks LF.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

A nice view of the ' H.M.G. Boche Buster ' nameplate fixed to the WW1 railway mount carrying the 18 inch BL Railway Howitzer Mk I, and also the shell hoist used to lift the 2,500 lb 6 foot long 18 inch shell up onto the firing platform's wheeled loading trolley, which rolled the hefty shell into the gun's breech.

 

LF

 

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

[MerchantOldSalt]

On ‎28‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 15:53, Lancashire Fusilier said:

Continuing to track the history of the WW1 Railway Gun ' Boche Buster ' and it's original railway mounting, the attached photograph has two interesting connections with WW1.

 

Firstly, this photograph taken in the latter part of WW2,  shows the 18 inch BL Railway Howitzer Mk I on it's WW1 railway mounting named ' Boche Buster ' positioned in the railway siding at Halwill Junction in Devon during ' Boche Buster's ' journey from Kent to the Okehampton Artillery Range on Dartmoor, where the 18 inch Railway Howitzer was to undergo testing and evaluation for possible use in Europe following the Normandy Landings.

 

Secondly, I believe one of the British Army Officers shown in this photograph ( probably either 2nd or 4th from the left ) is Lieutenant Colonel Stewart Montagu Cleeve, who as a Major, was Boche Buster's original Battery Commander during WW1  and following the outbreak of of WW2, Cleeve, who at the time was stationed in Hong Kong, was recalled by Winston Churchill to organise the resuscitation of the heavy artillery guns which had been hidden all over England since the signing of the WW1 Armistice. Cleeve was fortunate in finding the original Boche-Buster from the 1914-18 war and when it was reassembled at Dover, the order to fire was given personally by King George VI.

 

Also of note, is the Gun's ' Tompion ' ( Muzzle Cover ) carrying the Royal Coat of Arms.

 

LF

 

 

This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised. 

 

 

.......sorry to appear contentious LF but Montagu Cleeve is the third from left with beret and stick, I have a photo of him in slightly later life and there is, in my opinion, no mistaking him.   Just at the moment I can't find it, but I'm pretty certain. Actually, he even looks like he owns the thing doesn't he? Great photo though.

 

Tony

[Lancashire Fusilier]

2 hours ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

 

.......sorry to appear contentious LF but Montagu Cleeve is the third from left with beret and stick, I have a photo of him in slightly later life and there is, in my opinion, no mistaking him.   Just at the moment I can't find it, but I'm pretty certain. Actually, he even looks like he owns the thing doesn't he? Great photo though.

 

Tony

 

Tony,

 

Many thanks for the follow up, and I was hoping you would step in and help with his identification, which I was trying to do based on the photographs of him taken atop Boche Buster during King George V's visit on 8th August 1918, as shown in post #5545, using his approximate height etc.

If we can confirm Cleeve as being 3rd from the left, that would be excellent news, and the nose looks to match.

I had looked for WW2 photographs of him, and could not find any. The only man I could discount, was the one wearing the bowler.

 

Regards,

LF

Edited 29 October , 2016 by Lancashire Fusilier

[Lancashire Fusilier]

With reference to post #5572 which showed the massive 2,500 lb 6 foot long 18 inch shell lying on the loading trolley, the following photographs not only graphically illustrate the enormous size and scale of the 18 inch shell, but also show the equally massive Cordite charge which was additionally required to be loaded into the 18 inch Gun's barrel in order to propel that 2,500 lb shell to it's maximum range of 12 miles.

 

Although the 18 inch Gun was developed during the latter stages of WW1, it was not officially introduced into service until April 1920, a date which coincided with the opening of the new Imperial War Museum at Crystal Palace, Sydenham Hill, London, by King George V on 9th June 1920.

 

With the new 18 inch Gun being considered a superb example both of British military power and engineering expertise, one of the new 18 inch Guns was to be given a prominent display position in one the new Imperial War Museum's galleries.

 

Along with an example of the 18 inch Gun, which I shall be featuring in the coming days, the Imperial War Museum displayed examples of the massive 2,500 lb 6 foot long 18 inch shell, and in one display, in addition to showing the 18 inch shell, alongside the shell, was a tall stack ( perhaps 10+ feet high ) made up of 6 bags of Cordite totalling 265/270 lbs of charge, which were needed to hurl the 2,500 lb shell to it's maximum range of 12 miles ( 22,300 yards ).

Both the shell and the tower of Cordite are pictured alongside a member of the IWM staff, so as to give a good sense of the dimensions of each.

 

This superbly illustrative photograph, is the only one I have seen where the WW1 vintage 18 inch Railway Gun's complete shell and Cordite charge, which were both loaded into the barrel for a single firing, are shown together.

 

LF

 

 

IWM This image is reproduced strictly for non-commercial research and private study purposes as permitted under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended and revised.

 

 

[BIFFO]