4th/5th Bn , Black Watch

[Stansman]

Hi I'm currently researching several men in the 4th/5th Bn, Black Watch and I'm interested in their role in the first few days of the Somme battles particulary their movements from the 1st of July to the 4th of July 1916, the research I have so far doesnt cover those dates so any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help

Stan

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

JUNE 18TH-30TH LE TOURET RESTED

JULY 1ST FERME DU BOIS RELIEVED 14TH HAMPSHIRES

JULY 5TH RICHEBOURG ST VAAST RELIEVED 1ST/6TH CHESHIRES

JULY 6TH LE TOURET BILLETS RELIEVED BY 2ND/5TH GLOUCESTERS

JULY 7TH GIVENCHY VILLAGE LINE RELIEVED SCOTTISH 5TH RIFLES

JULY 8TH GIVENCHY LEFT RELIEVED 2ND ROYAL WELSH FUSILIERS

JULY 14TH GIVENCHY VILLAGE LINE RELIEVED 1ST/6TH CHESHIRES IN SUPPORT

JULY 20TH GIVENCHY FRONT LINE RELIEVE 1ST/6TH CHESHIRES

JULY 24TH/25TH A COMPANY TO VILLAGE LINE OTHER COMPANIES REMAIN IN LINE

JULY 26TH ESSARS BILLETS REST BILLETS

NEUVE-CHAPELLE, GIVENCHY FRONT APRIL- AUGUST 1916.

In the Spring and Summer of 1916 this sector of front was deemed to be "quiet" which contrasted sharply with the activity it had seeen throughout 1915. Both the 4th and 5th battalions had fought here then and knew the region.

There were four parts of the line where the 4/5th served although it spent most of its time around Festubert and Givenchy. From north to south these were:-

(1) Moated Grange Sector just north of Neuve Chapelle. (2) Ferme du Bois Sector around Richebourg L'Avoue and Richebourg St. Vaast. (3) Festubert Sector (Known as C section with sub-sections C1 and C2). (4) Givenchy Sector (Known as B section with sub-sections B1 and B2).

Except for the area around Givenchy the trenches were mainly breastworks. Most of the front line from Cuinchy to just S. E of Ypres lay in the flat low lying meadows of the Lys and Flanders plain. In the winter the clay soil held the water very near to the surface causing permanent water-logging. This meant that digging a trench was impossible and that therefore breastworks were the only alternative.

The ideal breastwork construction was to erect two revetments of gabions or hurdles, or if using sandbags build two sandbag walls, ten feet apart. Then the gap would be filled in with earth and a gently sloping bursting course would be added in front. Sandbag breastworks were more likely to be found at the front line as they could be built more silently in fce of the enemy.

The Festubert landscape was usually described as a smelly undrainable marsh. In April 1916 the front line here was in a bad state of repair consisting entirely of breastworks which stood out against the greeen meadow land. Due to the localised flooding there was no front line as such but merely a series of unconnected "islands" which in places had considerable gaps between them. This was referred to as the "island line". Communication trenches to these islands were non existant and access was only possible at night. During the time the 4th/5th were here four communication trenches - Fife Avenue, Barnton Road, Pioneer Road and Shetland Road - were to be improved as a matter of urgency.

Each "island" was a short butt of sandbag work without dugouts. Every one was numbered and was on average sixty yards from its neighbour. The Garrison of the islands varied from one N. C. O. and six other ranks to one officer and twenty other ranks. This latter garrisoned Princes Island which was the biggest. There was little for these small groups of men to do other than spend the day lying down quietly and observing through a periscope.

Work had to be carried out as a priority to link up thes islands but the land was very wet and badly cut up by shell holes so it was a long term task requiring good weather. With the enemy two hundred yards away the work would have to be done at night. However, the main task of providing some kind of wire defence was essential as it was very thin and the enemy had to be prevented from wandering about inside the line and possibly being mistaken for friends.

In the left front subsection there was a trench called "Cover Trench" behind the islands and about eight hundred yards in the rear was the old British Line, this was the line occupied before the advance of June 1915 and now formed the main line of resistance until the island line could be reclaimed connected up and wired. The old British Line would be were the majority of the Battalion would be found along with its Headquarters. The right front subsection and islands was the line taken over by the 4th/5th on April 19th 1916.

There were two breastwork communication trenches running forward some two hundred yards to the old German Line but none to the islands and so by day they were unapproachable from the rear. Visiting the posts at night was achieved by walking above ground on boarded ways and was dangerous carrying the risk of walking into the German Lines. Similarly Cover Trench could not be reached in daytime from the old British Line. However, as previously mentioned, four communication trenches were initiated enabling movement in the day. Like all breastworks in the area they were not substantial. Bulletts penetrated and killed soldiers who were totally in cover. Fortunately there was little artillery duelling simply because both sides could have totally destroyed each other. A classic case of the "live and let live system".

Behind the front line system there was the Village (support) line viz the line of the villages Windy Corner-Festubert-Epinette. This secondary system contained the Stand-To Billets were men lived in strong points or keeps which were usually sandbagged cellars or farmhouses. From the bricked up dugouts men would be sent forward to relieve the garrisoned islands.

In the Festubert Secion the Village Line contained posts at Le Plantin North (one platoon plus one machine gun), Festubert (one platoon plus one machine gun), Festubert East (one platoon plus one machine gun), Cailloux South (one platoon), Cailloux North (one platoon), Epinette West (one NCO and three men), Tuning Fork East (one NCO plus three men) and Route A (one NCO plus three men).

Even further behind was the Le Touret Line (Reserve Billets) with posts at Loisne East, Loisne North, Le Touret Central, Le Touret East each with a garrison of one NCO and three men. The localities would be strongly wired and in such a way as to draw the enemy into pockets and then deal with him by machine gun and counter attack. Neverthless the primary defence was the holding of the front line trenches and keeps.

Then behind the Le Touret Line was the Gorre-Essars system with ten posts with garrisons of one NCO and three men at Croix de Fer, La Motte, Essars, Lavie Bridge, Long Cornet, Le Hamel, Le Hamel North West, Lavie, Les Choquaux, and Mes Plaux and similarly wired as above.

Givenchy had a bad reputation and the enemy were far more active with retaliatory shelling, mining, trench mortars and grenades. This had the effect of knocking the trenches about, especially in the left sub sector, and of producing a steady stream of casualties for a Battalion in the line of around ten a day. Compared to Festubert the position was much stronger and in a better state though the extreme right in April 1916 near the La Bassee Canal did have a gap between two Companies in the first line of trenches. Nevertheless Givenchy did command the area and was considered the key of the Divisional Sector.

There was much mining in the Sector and No Mans Land in the left sub section was a mass of mine craters. Saps would be pushed forward to these craters and they would then be held by bombers in advance of the front line. Good Bombers were considered to be very necessary in this area. There was a mining company (254 Tunneling Company) attached to the 39th Division which had to find a Mining Fatigue Party of five hundred for it (one officer and one hundred and eighty other ranks) coming from 118th Infantry Brigade.

The Givenchy sector was approximately one thousand six hundred yards long and like most was divided into right and left sub sections (B1, B2). On the left trenches were only thirty yards from the enemy but one the right the distance was two hundred and fifty yards. It required about seven platoons in the Line in each sub sector (four hundred and twenty men) with the rest in Keeps. In the right (B1) front sub section posts were at Marie Redoubt (one platoon), Spoil Bank (half a platoon) and Orchard Farm (half a platoon and one machine gun). The left (B2) sub section posts were located at Poppy Redoubt (half a platoon), Moat Farm (half a platoon and one machine gun) and Herts Redoubt (one platoon plus one machine gun).

Then in the Village (Support) Line posts were established at Givenchy Keep (fifty rifles plus two machine guns), Hilders Redoubt (half a platoon), Pont Fixe South (one Company), Pont Fixe North (one Company), Marais East (one NCO and three men), Windy Corner (one platoon) and Le Plantin (one platoon). Finally the Gorre (Reserve) Line had posts at Gorre, Marais South West, Tuning Fork west and Westminster Bridge.

In the 39th Division the system of reliefs had been fixed at sixteen days in the line and eight days rest for Infantry Brigades with Battalion Reliefs within Brigades taking place every four days. During this period the 4th/5th Black Watch moved in and out of the line on numerous occasions.

This is from this site

http://www.blackwatch.50megs.com/index2.html

BUT

EVERY TIME I USE IT MY ANTIVIRUS SAYS THERES A PROBLEM AND QUARANTINES SOMETHING, HOWEVER IT SEEMS SAFE ENOUGH. UP TO YOU HOW AND IF YOU USE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

Graeme

[Stansman]

Thanks Graeme, thats just what I was looking for! Much appreciated

Stan

[dundeesown]

Hi Stan,who are the lads you are researching ? if you don`t mind me asking.

Gary

[Stansman]

Hi, I'm looking at the two MC and Bar winners to the 4/5, Captain Robert Albert Plimpton and Captain D Maxwell.

Stan

[Tom A McCluskey]

Hi Stan,

Without a detailed look, I can think of three MC and Bar winners - the two you have previously mentioned, and the third being Captain Talbert Stevenson.

Aye,

Tom McC

[ander11]

Hi Stan

Maxwell, D 2nd Lieut. Joined 14th Nov., 1916. Awarded M.C. Promoted Capt. Awarded Bar to M.C. 4th June 1918. wounded. 1st Aug., 1918 D of Wounds 3rd Aug 1918. taken from 4/5th Battalion.

Plimpton , R.A. 2nd Lieut Joined 12th Nov., 1915. Awarded M.C 17th Nov ., 1916. Awarded Bar to M.C. 6th Jan., 1917 Promoted Capt. Killed 27th Sept., 1917. taken from 4th Battalion ( A History of The Black Watch.

best regards

Ian