7th Batt. Rifle brigade medals

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

My GG Uncle served in 7th (Service) Battalion, Rifle Brigade from 31 August 1914 until he was DD 18/10/1917. During this period he rose to the dizzy heights of Serjeant!

In December 1916 he appears in the London Gazette (along with many others) as having been awarded the Military Medal. His service records (Fortunately it was one of the burnt ones) seems to show this being awarded in October. The battalion war diary does not even mention him. The museum in Winchester could not offer any help. I have found a small, fairly non specific report in his local paper (Hackney Gazette). Does anyone have any suggestions of further places to find any more information about this?

I wondered whether it could be linked to the fighting at Flers Courcellette in September?

Any suggestion gratefully received.

Simon

[sotonmate]

Simon

You might get a mention in the 41 Infantry Brigade HQ War Diary WO95/1894. No MM Citations survived the 1940 bombing as a Collection though some are to be found here and there in Diaries and maybe Regt/Bn Histories.

Sotonmate

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Simon

You might get a mention in the 41 Infantry Brigade HQ War Diary WO95/1894. No MM Citations survived the 1940 bombing as a Collection though some are to be found here and there in Diaries and maybe Regt/Bn Histories.

Sotonmate

Cheers for this suggestion, I'll give it a go. Seems to be WO95/1895 on the National Archives site, but the description looks correct.

Thanks again.

Simon

[sotonmate]

Simon

You have said that the Bn War Diary "does not even mention him". From that I take it that you have seen it (WO95/1895). I am guiding you towards the higher echelon Diary,which might have something about the award and confirm that it is WO95/1984 !

Sotonmate

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Just found it. You were correct. I should stop doubting the experts!

Simon

[sotonmate]

Simon

No,it is good that you check,we all make mistakes !!

Sotonmate

[nick ward408]

Hi Simon,

You did not mention his name so I am guessing your man was Harry Forbes M.M. Just started going through the diaries and he is mentioned wounded on 1st Sept 1915 (31st August by bullet) B Coy. So I shall sift through from there to see if I can spot him.

Nick

[nick ward408]

Simon, Found him again in Dec 1915 back on nominal roll strength. Wounded again 15.9.16. Sgt 'A' Coy. So my guess is he won his MM for actions on this date.

Nick

[john conley]

Hi All

Just looking at the war diaries of the 7th Bat Rifle Brigade.

States B Coy and C Coy were in front line trenches S of Potijze in Kaaie Salient (I think)

on 30th and 31st Aug 1915.

They were (I think) relieved on 31st after having 2 men killed on that day.

My Grandfather (Henry Conley) was with B Coy at that time so if any further information could be posted it would be great.

Thanks in anticipation John C

[nick ward408]

Hi All

Just looking at the war diaries of the 7th Bat Rifle Brigade.

States B Coy and C Coy were in front line trenches S of Potijze in Kaaie Salient (I think)

on 30th and 31st Aug 1915.

They were (I think) relieved on 31st after having 2 men killed on that day.

My Grandfather (Henry Conley) was with B Coy at that time so if any further information could be posted it would be great.

Thanks in anticipation John C

John was your relative 755 Rifles Brigade then Scots Guards?

[john conley]

Hi All

Just looking at the war diaries of the 7th Bat Rifle Brigade.

States B Coy and C Coy were in front line trenches S of Potijze in Kaaie Salient (I think)

on 30th and 31st Aug 1915.

They were (I think) relieved on 31st after having 2 men killed on that day.

My Grandfather (Henry Conley) was with B Coy at that time so if any further information could be posted it would be great.

Thanks in anticipation John C

John was your relative 755 Rifles Brigade then Scots Guards?

[john conley]

Hi Nick

Yes 755 Henry Conley Joined 7th Rifle Brigade 24.8.1914 wounded on 18th Aug 1916 (listed in 7th war diary)

I next find him in Ireland with 2/7th Royal Scots (302289)& cleared to return to o/seas service on 30.3.1918.

Then no further records until his certificate of employment from Estaples convalescent depot

states 13 Royal Scots unit no.6 Con Depot issued 4.4.1919

?? why do you ask.

I presume Simon's man was also from East End of London

Regards John C

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Hi Simon,

You did not mention his name so I am guessing your man was Harry Forbes M.M. Just started going through the diaries and he is mentioned wounded on 1st Sept 1915 (31st August by bullet) B Coy. So I shall sift through from there to see if I can spot him.

Nick

Hi Nick - Sorry to dissappoint, but my man was Charles Casio Lawrence MM no, B2128. From memory he was possibly wounded once and definitely shell shocked during 1917. He also appears in the Christmas day 1915 roll call. When I said he was not mentioned in the diaries, I just meant his MM award. Sorry to confuse.

Having said this, at about the right time in the diaries (late 1916) there is the mention of a Cpl A Lawrence B2120 receiving or being gazetted for an MM. I have often hoped that this was just a slip of the Adjutant's pencil and it is him, but two mistakes in one small entry? I suspect that I hope in vain!

Thanks for hunting though,

Simon

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Hi Nick

Yes 755 Henry Conley Joined 7th Rifle Brigade 24.8.1914 wounded on 18th Aug 1916 (listed in 7th war diary)

I next find him in Ireland with 2/7th Royal Scots (302289)& cleared to return to o/seas service on 30.3.1918.

Then no further records until his certificate of employment from Estaples convalescent depot

states 13 Royal Scots unit no.6 Con Depot issued 4.4.1919

?? why do you ask.

I presume Simon's man was also from East End of London

Regards John C

Yes - my family were from East London - he lived in Homerton Row, just behind Homerton High Street and seems to have signed up at the Hackney recruiting office (the Town Hall?) Do you happen to have any pictures of 7th RB men? We have nothing of GG Uncle Charley due to family issues 70 years ago and it would be great to have some idea of the look of them. (I have one of an unknown platoon of C coy outside a barrack in training from the Burton Mail but the uniform is freshly issued and very plain)

I think that my man was in C and then maybe D coys. A small obituary mentions his having been commanded by amongst others Lt Gilbert Talbot who commanded a platoon in C Coy and was famously killed at Hooge. Whether GG Uncle was one of the very few survivors of C Coy after this action, or if he was transferred beforehand, I don't know.

Aside from the Batt. war diary I know little of the battallion's activity apart from the enlistment and actions at Hooge, again from letters and reports in the Burton Mail.

Simon

[stiletto_33853]

Simon,

You might well be correct regarding the mistake in the diary regarding the names and numbers. B-2120 is a William Henry Dooley of the 1st and then 4th Rifle Brigade and the regimental records with the name Lawrence show no such award to B-2120, Lawrences shown as having received awards are:-

R.S.M., W.G. Lawrence, 5192, M.C. 1/1/17 & M.S.M 3/6/19

Capt. G. st. P. Lawrence, Despatches, Order of the White Eagle, 5th class (Serbia) 15/2/17. Cavalier, Order of the Crown of Italy, 29/11/18

Rfmn. C.C. Lawrence, B/2128, M.M. 9/12/16

Andy

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Andy,

Thanks for the hope! I've just realised that the entry referred to above is at the same time as the entry in his records. I will claim that entry in the war diary as mine!

Do the records which you looked at provide any further information? I assume that the battalion was given some medals to award after the action at Delville Wood on 15th September, although the bit in his local paper does not seem to refer to this attack, it talks about his being in charge of a bombing sap under attack.

Simon

[stiletto_33853]

Simon,

Finish work for Xmas today so will do a bit of digging for you, there are also a few other requests on here that I need to catch up with as well.

There is nothing in the higher echelon diaries concerning this award, such as Brigade, Q&A which sometimes record them, or the General Staff of the 14th Division.

Andy

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Simon,

Finish work for Xmas today so will do a bit of digging for you, there are also a few other requests on here that I need to catch up with as well.

There is nothing in the higher echelon diaries concerning this award, such as Brigade, Q&A which sometimes record them, or the General Staff of the 14th Division.

Andy

That would be great if you could.

Thanks Andy,

Simon

[john conley]

Hi Simon

My family lived in Scawfell Street Haggerston in 1911.

I cannot find where this street was.

I do not know where he volunteered but he was only 15years and 9months old.

Sorry do not have any photo's of the 7th battalion or my man from around this time.

I'm sure Stilleto will provide some he has been a great help to me in the past.

Regards John C

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Hi Andy,

It's been suggested that you could have photographs of 7th RB men?

Nothing has come down my family of GG Uncle Charley and I've only got one pic of an unknown platoon of C Coy, presumably just after they were issued with proper khaki uniforms and a very very blurred picture of them marching out of their final training camp on 19th(?) May 1915. I would like to find something of the men looking like real soldiers to get an idea of what he would have looked like! Do you have anything like this you would be willing to let me have a copy of? I'm pretty sure that he was a bomber.

Have a good Christmas!

Simon

[john conley]

Hi

How did you manage to search the Hackney Gazette.

I would love to search the paper for lists of wounded to see if my Grandfather is mentioned.

Thanks in anticipation

John C

[senlac11@btinternet.com]

Hi John,

I searched the microfiche copies of the Hackney Gazette at the Hackney local history Archives in London (google search finds the addresses etc). My wife and I spent a very long morning hunting through the fiche copies and we found just one small mention of his award.

I could find very little regarding injuries or deaths of local boys. It seemed to me that there was an editorial deceision not to discuss this. Maybe the casualty numbers were too high? Having said this, the archivist told me that there were several other papers running at the time, so maybe this information is found in these. She told me that the Gazette was the "main" one at the time and I did not have time to hunt through other titles.

I have seen an article from a newspaper regarding the death of my GG Uncle (in a scrap book prepared by a former 7th RB man who ended up being commissioned and moved to the 10th I think). He came from Burton on Trent and later in the war was stationed at the Gas school just down the road from me in Crowborough, East Sussex so where he found the article I don't know. Maybe it was some sort of RB newspaper? I guess Stilletto would know if this kind of thing existed? All I know is that the printing & format of this article bore no resemblance to the HAckney Gazettes I saw.

if you do decide to look, and find something, could you let me know? I could have another go!

Have a good Christmas.

Simon

[john conley]

Simon

Thanks for the information.

If I find any further information I will let you know.

All I can add is that sometime ago I was in email correspondance with a lady

whose man served in 'C' coy of the 7th RB. He was a London man and was wounded on same day

as my Grandfather and the lady was able to supply me with an evacuation chain.

She also purchased the RB book and provided look ups.

If you PM me with your email address I can give you her email address.

Have a good Christmas and a happy healthy new year.

Regards John C