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corisande

Serbian Order of the White Eagle

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corisande

A post was made yesterday on this thread about 4 men from RDF getting Serbian Order of White Eagle

I cannot find any mention on LG nor can I find ORs getting this award. Anyone have any thoughts here

I have added here the OPs newspaper cutting to clarify what is going on

001-8.jpg

I appreciate that the award may not necessarily been for service in Salonika, but there were 2 battalions of RDF there, and it would have been logical for them to have got it in Salonika.

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apwright

Not sure this is the same man, but 6063 Sjt (later CSM) William Cummins's service record is on Ancestry (service no. not indexed, but born abt 1881, Marborough, Queens). Images #16237 & 16240-1 list his Serbian decoration as being the Cross of Karageorge (with Swords) 1st Class, by "RO 336 dated 2/12/16". Ancestry image 16248 says it was promulgated in the LG of 15/2/17.

Looks quite similar to the White Eagle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Star_of_Karageorge especially from a distance in a grainy photo... :)

He also won the DCM (LG 16/5/16) & Bar ("by FM CinC", but no date).

EDIT: And 2 MiDs (5/11/15 and 5/5/16).

Adrian

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corisande

Thanks very much. That seems to be Cummins.

As you say quite similar. My life seems to be full of grainy photos at the moment !

Amazing really how many of assorted Serbia medals were handed out.

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ATNOMIS

Adrian

Thank you for the input.

Simon/Atnomis

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KevinBattle

Sjt Cummins has 2 medals up, but clipping mentions that Private Hayes was also awarded the CdG... should that actually read "first mentioned" rather than "last"?

Or did Private Hayes get his CdG at another presentation?

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rflory

It appears that the medal that the four men in the photo are wearing is the Serbian Medal for Military Merit. Dick Flory

post-765-036412400 1298058144.jpg

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corisande

I admit to being lost with these medals. Can anyone tell me

1. Am I correct in assuming that the Serbs would have given a "job lot" of a specified number of medals to the British Army

2. How did the British decide to award then - what was the mechanism

3. I know that with say the Russian medals, they could be, and usually were, awarded for action on the Western Front. Was this the case with the Serbian medals?

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ForeignGong

I admit to being lost with these medals. Can anyone tell me

1. Am I correct in assuming that the Serbs would have given a "job lot" of a specified number of medals to the British Army

2. How did the British decide to award then - what was the mechanism

3. I know that with say the Russian medals, they could be, and usually were, awarded for action on the Western Front. Was this the case with the Serbian medals?

1. Yes

2. No one seems to know how or why or what, although a lot of foreign awards were to members of Corps & appear to be their bravery & meritorious awards rather than giving MM's & DCM's

3. Most of Serbian awards were for service in Salonika

R Hayes Fr CdG 24.2.16

W Cummins as Adrian stated

W Carroll Russian Medal of St George 1st cl

Leonard I have nothing

I agree with Dick on Serb medal.

Peter

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corisande

Thanks for that help

Just to clarify "W Carroll Russian Medal of St George 1st cl " - that is in addition to his Serbian medal ?

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ForeignGong

These are the only awards I have for them, no serb at all

I have a data base I have been working on for approx 10 years,that has over 37.000 names that are gazetted for foreign awards for the WW1 period. I do not claim that it is 100% but must be very close.

Peter

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corisande

37.000 names sheesh, that is some work

I tried to do that for the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. It about the same number, but realised that I was not up to the job for the whole regiment :blush:

So if these 4 men were not gazetted, I assume that they did get the awards, but they would have been "unofficial". Sort of handed out in the field, but never got to LG or HM the King being graciously moved to permit them to wear such awards?

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ForeignGong

There are only 6 (six) gazetted Serbian Medal for Military Merit and all the men served in Salonika.

I am still adding other awards such as these four & noting Unofficial

Peter

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corisande

OK thanks for clarifying that.

I thought I was losing my touch with plumbing the depths of LG when I could not find them

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honest

Captain Robert Roberts, master of the Cameronian which was torpedoed and sunk with the loss of all lives on Jun 2nd 1917.

Captain Roberts had been awarded the Serbian Order of the White Eagle with Swords some time between 1914 and 1917.

This medal was conferred for conspicuous bravery of officers in the field as well as for exceptional merit during wartime actions.

HELP WANTED IN FINDING OUT THE REASON FOR THIS AWARD.

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horatio2

One of three Mercantile Marine Captains to receive the same award (Order of the White Eagle 5th Class - no 'Swords') and one of a whole slew of Serbian awards on the same date. Unlikely to be for a specific act but very likely to be part of the widespread 'exchange of awards' between the Allies.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29966/supplements/2112

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honest

One of three Mercantile Marine Captains to receive the same award (Order of the White Eagle 5th Class - no 'Swords') and one of a whole slew of Serbian awards on the same date. Unlikely to be for a specific act but very likely to be part of the widespread 'exchange of awards' between the Allies.

http://www.london-ga...upplements/2112

Thanks Horatio2 its great to see his name in the London Gazette. However, I still a bit puzzled!

The Tower Hill Memorial says that he was awarded a Class 3 medal; and his photo appears

to show a medal which has cross swords on it! I suppose these things happen, and the Gazette

must be right.

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Lancashire Fusilier

Mostyn,

I have this card showing the Serbian Order of the White Eagle with crossed swords ( Military Award ).

The card details as follows :-

" Instituted by King Milan Obrenovitch 1 in 1883, to commemorate the restoration of the Kingdom in the preceeding year.

The Order is divided into five classes, all of which are awarded for both civil and military services.

The Badges awarded for military services have crossed swords below the crown, and are worn by Serbians, for war services, with a scarlet watered riband.

A good many British naval and military officers received the Order, for services rendered during the Great War.

A double-headed white eagle is the ancient symbol of Serbia ".

It seems that all 5 classes had crossed swords, if they were awarded for military services. So Captain Roberts could have had the Order Class 3 with swords, due to his being a military service award.

post-63666-0-78881100-1325983049.jpg

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honest

Many thanks Lancashire Fusilier, it's good to have a picture of the medal.

Mostyn.

Mostyn,

I have this card showing the Serbian Order of the White Eagle with crossed swords ( Military Award ).

The card details as follows :-

" Instituted by King Milan Obrenovitch 1 in 1883, to commemorate the restoration of the Kingdom in the preceeding year.

The Order is divided into five classes, all of which are awarded for both civil and military services.

The Badges awarded for military services have crossed swords below the crown, and are worn by Serbians, for war services, with a scarlet watered riband.

A good many British naval and military officers received the Order, for services rendered during the Great War.

A double-headed white eagle is the ancient symbol of Serbia ".

It seems that all 5 classes had crossed swords, if they were awarded for military services. So Captain Roberts could have had the Order Class 3 with swords, due to his being a military service award.

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anne_skinner

Hello,

I an researching an Australian soldier who was awarded the Order of the White Eagle 5th class. How can I find out about the action that brought him the award please?

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ForeignGong

Hello,

I an researching an Australian soldier who was awarded the Order of the White Eagle 5th class. How can I find out about the action that brought him the award please?

Hi Anne-skinner

You can some times get citations and / or recommendations for Aussie medals from the AWM site, if you do not have access to this, give us his name, number & unit & I will see if they have survived.

Peter

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Lancashire Fusilier

The Serbian Order of the White Eagle.

post-63666-0-62764400-1335017670.jpg

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Kitchener's Bugle

This is my favourite award of all time! The Crossed swords (Military) was first introduced in 1915.

Serbian awards were often conferred to British Citizens for humanitarian actions i.e doctors or nurses during evacuations or ships who helped out with rescues.

DSD_1155.JPG

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auchonvillerssomme

Can I ask who is the maker of that example?

Mick

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