Beselare Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 In Geoff Bridger's book The Battle of Neuve Chapelle, on page 99 there is a reproduction of a painting showing a German officer and some men surrendering to a British officer. Both officers are saluting with their left hand. Is this a simple mistake by the artist, or was it 'the done thing' when surrendering, to use the left hand? There doesn't appear to be any reason why either of the officers couldn't have used their right hand. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 Sounds like the photographic image of the painting was reversed when the book was printed. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 I think you are right - reverse printing. But, an anecdote just possibly of interest if not germane to this thread. The only one of my Turkish male friends who did not do his compulsory militray service owes this to a shoulder injury received when playing football as a lad, and which prevented him from raising his right arm above his shoulder, so preventing him from doing a right-hand salute. He offered to do a left-hand salute, but this is against Turkish army regulations, and so after a mere four hours at the registration centre he had been both received into the army and honorably dismissed on medical grounds...!!! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 The only reference I've ever see to any army saluting with the left hand is an imaginary one in the book Billy Liar by Keith Waterhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 I believe that at one time, one saluted with the hand nearest the officer. I do not know when this was changed but have a notion it was during the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34000&st=0&p=273397&hl=+left%20+hand%20+salute&fromsearch=1entry273397 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 I believe that at one time, one saluted with the hand nearest the officer. I do not know when this was changed but have a notion it was during the war. In General Jack's Diary for June 1918 (if memory serves - I do not have the book with me) there is a refernce to an order saying that the practice of saluting with the left hand should cease forthwith. Jack notes that the Germans would know it was time to surrender if the British could be bothered with such trivialities in the midst of the perils of the German 1918 offensives. Oops, sorry, just sen the link - but will let this lie anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 In General Jack's Diary for June 1918 (if memory serves - I do not have the book with me) there is a refernce to an order saying that the practice of saluting with the left hand should cease forthwith. Jack notes that the Germans would know it was time to surrender if the British could be bothered with such trivialities in the midst of the perils of the German 1918 offensives. Oops, sorry, just sen the link - but will let this lie anyhow. Thank you Nigel. I could not, for the life of me, remember where I read it. I thought it was about as important as the general did, so made no note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 Just to stir things a little (not usually a trait of mine here) it occurs to me that it might be rooted in some kind of chivalry. Not quite sure how duelling sabrists of the Prussian Army fought,but could it be that if they saluted with the left hand they were saying that they could not be drawing a sabre in an offensive action ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepper Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 The only reference I've ever see to any army saluting with the left hand is an imaginary one in the book Billy Liar by Keith Waterhouse George McDonald Fraser tells of a left handed salute in his semi-autobiographical book The General Danced at Dawn. This is due to the protagonist having a buckle on his kilt snap and having to choose between a left handed salute or saluting correctly but with his kilt round his ankles. I'd recommend the book and it's two sequel to anyone wanting a good chuckle at the life of a Scottish officer immediately after the Second world War. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbgvardia Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 I have never seen a left-handed salute. Is there any way it could be related to protocol on saluting the enemy? I have never seen a left-handed salute. Is there any way it could be related to protocol on saluting the enemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 5 December , 2011 Share Posted 5 December , 2011 An interesting piece from General Jack's diary on military regulations regarding saluting, which I have to say I wasn't aware of. But I wonder if it's the explanation for the picture in question apparently depicting German and British officers saluting with the left hand. Anyone with the book able to scan and post it? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vista52 Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 This is a crop from an old photo I have. Taken in Belfast, probably early 1900's. Always wondered about the left-handed salute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 Maybe he was just overwhelmed. SALUTING ARMY OFFICERS.HC Deb 24 July 1918 vol 108 cc1795-6 1796 Mr. GILBERT asked whether it is proposed to issue to the Navy and Army any new Regulations as regards the saluting of officers by men; and whether anything will be done to stop the unnecessary saluting of officers of all regiments and branches by men of the Home and Dominion forces in London and other large towns? Mr. MACPHERSON An Army Order was issued on the 1st July abolishing the left-hand salute, but no further Regulations are in contemplation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 Hello all, Saluting was the bane of the First AIF. The concept of saluting officers did not sit well with the firecely independent Digger volunteers. A recent publication here in Australia, "Fighting Nineteenth" by Matthews and Wilson records various instances of orders and instructions being issued to AIF units to ensure that saluting officers was carried out correctly, but to little avail. The widespread non-compliance among AIF units dates from the time of their arrival in Egypt (Chapter 2) and the efforts to correct their behaviour continued through the deployments to the Western Front. Even at the very end of the war, it was still an "issue" - an order from HQ 5th Brigade in late October 1918 admonished its units: "drawing attention to the fact that men are still saluting with their left hand. This is to be stopped." (Chapter 14, page 411.) It was hard enough to get the Digger to salute in the first place, let alone complicate matters by making a determination of which was the correct hand to use! The philosophy of non-saluting ran somehting like this: an officer who demanded to be saluted probably didn't deserve one, and those who did deserve it probably wouldn't bother about it. I remember reading this line elsewhere some time ago, but can't find the quote right now. Perhaps someone in the Forum might come up with the proper reference. Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 If the right arm can not be used due to injury (or removal) then the left hand is allowed. this originated WW1? Due to amount of arm problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beselare Posted 6 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2011 Thank you to all the responders in trying to sort out this little mystery. As we have had all kinds of responses, someone might be interested to know that in the police force in the 60s I was on my advanced driving course at Wakefield. Having been inspected by the Course Inspector for hair length, creases in trousers, etc., when leaving the quadrangle at Wakefield HQ, the driver had to salute the inspecting officer with his left hand while continuing to drive with the right hand. This meant a quicker gear-change could be made while proceeding onto the allocated route. Useless information perhaps, but it seems to complete the thread! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 The only reference I've ever seen to any army saluting with the left hand is an imaginary one in the book Billy Liar by Keith Waterhouse Here's another reference: Infantry Training 1914, paragraph 18, note (i), concerning saluting to the side: "The salute will be made with the hand further from the person saluted." I believe that at one time, one saluted with the hand nearest the officer. I do not know when this was changed but have a notion it was during the war. The further hand, so as not to cover the face when giving "eyes right" or "eyes left". They got it wrong in the opening titles to Blackadder Goes Forth, and if you look carefully, especially at Hugh Laurie, you can see what a difference it makes. They also have Darling returning the salute as well as Melchett, which is also wrong. As other posts have suggested, it seems to have been changed in about 1918. I know of no reason why a left-hand salute should have any other special meaning, such as when making or accepting a surrender. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 I think that has been discussed in threads other than that posted by Phil. Anyway, I am pretty sure it's also mentioned in the History of the Welsh Guards, for the same period as General Jack's diary, with a similar comment. A photo was published in, IIRC, the Tottygraph, showing a police officer opening a car door for Lloyd George, and saluting with his left hand. It elicited the sort of correspondence that only the Tottygraph can hold room for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 ao 211/1918 refers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 Pages to be turned with the right hand only....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 December , 2011 Share Posted 6 December , 2011 Pages to be turned with the right hand only....... we know what the left is for .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief_Chum Posted 7 December , 2011 Share Posted 7 December , 2011 The practice of left handed saluting was dispensed with by the British Army in July 1917. No idea why! Cheers, Taff "The further hand, so as not to cover the face when giving "eyes right" or "eyes left". They got it wrong in the opening titles to Blackadder Goes Forth, and if you look carefully, especially at Hugh Laurie, you can see what a difference it makes. They also have Darling returning the salute as well as Melchett, which is also wrong." ...as is having all the khaki-clad troops in the title sequence wearing their web pouches on the wrong sides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 8 December , 2011 Share Posted 8 December , 2011 Hello Taff I had noticed five errors in those titles. That makes six! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 8 December , 2011 Share Posted 8 December , 2011 The practice of left handed saluting was dispensed with by the British Army in July 1917. No idea why! Cheers, Taff "The further hand, so as not to cover the face when giving "eyes right" or "eyes left". They got it wrong in the opening titles to Blackadder Goes Forth, and if you look carefully, especially at Hugh Laurie, you can see what a difference it makes. They also have Darling returning the salute as well as Melchett, which is also wrong." ...as is having all the khaki-clad troops in the title sequence wearing their web pouches on the wrong sides... Can you give chapter and verse for July 1917 ..... the Army Order was issued a year later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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