1/8th Lancashire Fusiliers

[soitiz]

Hi everybody,

Would anybody be able to tell me if the 1st/8th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers had any men sent to Suvla for the August 1915 landing.

According to information at my local archives my Grand Uncle Charles Wheatley was killed at Suvla on 7th August 1915.

The entry read:

Wheatley. C. Private 1459, 1/8th Lancashire Fusiliers.

Mobilized with the Territorials in August 1914.

He was sent to Egypt with his unit in September and served in engagements on The Suez Canal.

Transferred to Gallipoli.

However he was unhappily killed in Action during the landing at Suvla Bay August 7th 1915 and was entitled to the 1914-1915 Star and The General Service and Victory Medals.

It's my understanding the 1st/8th LF's were mostly at Ravine Gully throughout May to August when he was killed.

Would i be correct to assume that he was killed elsewhere other than Suvla?

I'm currently researching his Battalions movements and any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Old Owl]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum. I had expected that one of the Lancashire fraternity may have answered your questions, in their abscence I will try.

The L.F.'s history describes the 1/8th Bn as being at Krithia Nullah during the period, but the battalion was most definitely involved in the Battle of the Vineyard on 7/8/15 in conjunction with the 1/5th,1/6th and 1/7th Battalion of the L.F.'s.

So it would appear that your G.U. was killed at this battle and not at the landings at Suvla Bay.

Hope that this helps,

Robert

[michaeldr]

I'm currently researching his Battalions movements and any help would be greatly appreciated

From Ray Westlake's book & valuable research tool 'British Regiments at Gallipoli' [iSBN 0 85052 511 X] see page 60

"August

To support – No. 1 Australian Line (1st Aug 1915)

front line Krithia Nullah (4th)

Took part in attack on trenches near The Vineyard (7th) . Moved forward in 3 lines and gained enemy's first line. Heavy counter attack later forced withdrawal – casualties reducing strength in firing line to just 7 officers and 73 other ranks.

Relieved and to Redoubt Line (8th)

The map below relates to later in the campaign, however it may be useful in helping you to identify points such as, No. 1 Australian Line, which runs from the base of Fir Tree Wood east to Krithia Nullah

Good luck

Michael

[soitiz]

Thank you Robert and Michael for being so helpful.

I researched the LF's Battalions movements and came up with the same info as you gave me,

i was a little taken aback when i read the bit of him being killed at Suvla, you have both certainly confirmed what i believe.

I had 4 relatives serve in Gallipoli all in the LF's, 2 brothers in the 1/7th who both survived the war,

1 in the KOSBs Killed at the Somme and of course Charles.

I have only recently started to research these men and find it both fascinating and heart wrenching.

Once again fella's thank you.

p.s. What an awesome site!

[Guest]

Hi everybody,

Would anybody be able to tell me if the 1st/8th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers had any men sent to Suvla for the August 1915 landing.

According to information at my local archives my Grand Uncle Charles Wheatley was killed at Suvla on 7th August 1915.

The entry read:

Wheatley. C. Private 1459, 1/8th Lancashire Fusiliers.

Mobilized with the Territorials in August 1914.

He was sent to Egypt with his unit in September and served in engagements on The Suez Canal.

Transferred to Gallipoli.

However he was unhappily killed in Action during the landing at Suvla Bay August 7th 1915 and was entitled to the 1914-1915 Star and The General Service and Victory Medals.

It's my understanding the 1st/8th LF's were mostly at Ravine Gully throughout May to August when he was killed.

Would i be correct to assume that he was killed elsewhere other than Suvla?

I'm currently researching his Battalions movements and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Whital

The 42nd Div's 125th (Lancashire Fusilier) Bde contained the following units who fought at Gallipoli at Helles.:

1/5th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers

1/6th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers

1/7th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers

1/8th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers

The Lancashire Fusilier battalion that landed at Suvla Bay was the 9th (Service) Bn which was part of 11th Div's 34th Inf Bde - a Kitchener unit

8th (Service) Bn Northumberland Fusiliers

9th (Service) Bn Lancashire Fusiliers

5th (Service) Bn Dorsetshire Regt

11th (Service) Bn Manchester Regt

To add to the mix, the 1st Bn Lancashire Fusiliers served in the 29th Div's 86th Bde who served at Helles and at Suvla....in total 6 bns of the Lancashire Fusiliers saw action at Gallipoli

If he fought with 1/8th Bn he is unlikely to have fought at Suvla on 7th (as mentioned above). If he did fight at Suvla on the 7th he is likely to have been serving with 9th (Service) Bn. It is remotely possible that he was transferred from 1/8th to 9th (Service) Bn but I think this is extremely unlikely as the 9th (Service) Bn were seeing their first action on 6th/7th Aug and were a full strength battalion needing no reinforcements at that stage. Also transfers of rank and file between Territorial Force units and Kitchener units were (I believe) rare at this stage in the War. If you are able to establish which Bn he was in I might be able to help if it transpires he was at Suvla with the 9th (Service) as I have researched the Bn at Gallipoli in depth. [Edit: There is no mention in the 9th (Service) Bn War Diary of receiving men or drafts from any other Bn before this date.]

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission CWCG has him as serving with 1/8th Bn. I suspect this is the Bn he served with and the reference to Suvla is a mistake. It is worth noting on that day the casualties were very high. The CWGC website records;

1/5th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers 75 Killed in Action (KIA)

1/6th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers 59 KIA

1/7th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers 67 KIA

1/8th Bn Lancashire Fusiliers 114 KIA........It looks as if the 1/8th Bn took the brunt of the fighting on 7th Aug at Helles

9th (Service) Bn Lancashire Fusiliers 65 KIA including 1 attached from 1/2nd Bn - Action at Suvla Bay

1st Bn Lancashire Fusiliers 1 KIA att to 1/6th Bn

If he was at Suvla with 9th (Service) Bn - The Wounded in Action (WIA) would typically be at least three to four times these numbers, although records vary considerably. In the 34th Bde at Suvla Bay (4 battalions including the 9th (Service) Bn Lancs Fusiliers) the casualties on 7th August were recorded as 114 KIA and 432 WIA plus another 109 Missing in Action (MIA). ....leaving the MIA aside, the ratio of wounded to killed was in this Bde on this horrendous day was nearly 4:1..... These were typical figures. It is also worth noting that a few of the MIA were eventually categorised as KIA at Suvla Bay. The CWGC records 134 KIA on this day, so 20 either Died of Wounds (DOW) or were Missing and presumed KIA. Put another way, on their first day of fighting a Bde with a nominal strength of around 4,000 saw 14% casualties on its first day. By the end of Aug 34th Inf Bde had 2,239 casualties (KIA, WIA, MIA), roughly 56% of nominal strength [source: Bde War Diary]...the 9th (Service) Bn by the end Aug had 636 casualties (KIA,WIA, MIA) of an original strength of 931 (all ranks) on 5th Aug [source: 11th Div War Diary] ..68% casualties or slightly more than two out of every three men that started.

I would recommend one very good book on the Lancashire Fusiliers at Gallipoli: "Helles Foundations - A Social History of Bury in the Aftermath of the Gallipoli Campaign" by Geoffrey Moorhouse.

MG

Edit: Nomenclature edited as per Blackblue's comments below... MG

[Blackblue]

I think Martin would be correct in saying that he was unlikely to have served with the 9th Bn. He is much more likely to have died in the attack on the Vineyard. I have seen instances before of Suvla and Helles being mixed up.

Rgds

Tim D

PS. Technically the title was 9th (Service) Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers. They didn't have a first/second line units as in the TF battalions.

[soitiz]

Hi guys,

The information you have given me here is great, being a newbie and all.

Finding my way around what went on with these battalions has been such a trip and you guys are so helpful.

I used to get boring books at Christmas as gifts, but this year i think the books will be a little more productive.

Cheers guys.