Seaforth "service" battalion and " depot "

[hazelclark]

Hi!

Have been trying to sort out what a "service " battalion is and what a depot is. I thought from info. on the Long long Trail and this site that I had it figured out but now I think i was wrong. My grandfather, Andrew Clark,'10260" was a corporal in the 1st Seaforths and in 1915 he ended up in Cromarty after sustaining a wound. He went back to the front later that year as part of the 8th Bat. This was a Territorial "service" regiment and he remained with them until he lost his arm in 1917. His Silver War Medal record lists him on discharge in 1918 as Lance Sergeant "Depot". So, I know that Fort George (near Cromarty) was the "depot" for the Seaforths but what would he be doing in Cromarty, still listed as the 1st Bat. (from marriage record) when his regiment remained in France until the end of 1915 when they shipped to Mesopotamia? Why would he have switched to a Territorial Battalion when he was a career soldier?

[ander11]

Hello Hazel,

Welcome to the great war Forum, I wouldn't say your grandfather didn't have a choice, he would of wanted to rejoin his old unit. recoverying wounded men would have been order to other units becauce they were needed

best regards

Ian

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Hazel

One small technical point: 8th Seaforths were a "New Army" or "Kitchener" battalion, specially raised for thee war. It and similar Service battalions were not part of the Territorial Force.

It is likely that, having been wounded in 1915, he was attached to the 3rd Bn Seaforths on coast defence duties at Cromarty. The regimental depots and 3rd Bns of line regiments were usually located at the same place, the 3rd Bn being "DSpecial Reserve", the successors of the old Militia. He would have been posted back to the Depot after losing his arm, and ended his service there.

It is also fairly likely that he would still have regarded himself as a "1st Bn man" whilst recovering from his first wound, and it was not uncommon for regular soldiers, especially experienced NCOs, to be transferred subsequently to Service battalions. The information on his marriage record would have been provided by Andrew himself and, unless the wedding was in a military chapel, it would not have been cross-checked with the Army authorities.

Bearing in mind the timing of his return, and the battalion's departure for Mespot, it is possible that he was not in time to rejoin them before they left, or was considered less physically fit for service in Mespot (which was particularly unhealthy as regards malaria etc), or simply that he was with 8th Bn during their training in UK and went to France with them. As Ian has said, he wouldn't have had any choice in the matter.

The multiplicity of types of infantry battalion is something which confuses everyone when they begin research!

Ron

[hazelclark]

Thanks Ron!

You are, of course, correct about the Territorial bit (was mixed up with an Uncle in the Gordons who died in 1918) and what you say about the 3rd Bat. in Cromarty makes sense in view of the fact that we know he spent that summer in Cromarty. However, since he was still in Cromarty in August (marriage record) and the 8th Bat. deployed to France in July he must have joined them later on. Since the Meerut took off that Fall for Mesopotamia, you could be right that he literally "missed the boat.

Is a "service" Bat. simply a fighting Bat. then? You are right about this stuff being confusing but it is also addictive!!!!!

thanks so much,

Hazel C."

Hello Hazel

One small technical point: 8th Seaforths were a "New Army" or "Kitchener" battalion, specially raised for thee war. It and similar Service battalions were not part of the Territorial Force.

It is likely that, having been wounded in 1915, he was attached to the 3rd Bn Seaforths on coast defence duties at Cromarty. The regimental depots and 3rd Bns of line regiments were usually located at the same place, the 3rd Bn being "DSpecial Reserve", the successors of the old Militia. He would have been posted back to the Depot after losing his arm, and ended his service there.

It is also fairly likely that he would still have regarded himself as a "1st Bn man" whilst recovering from his first wound, and it was not uncommon for regular soldiers, especially experienced NCOs, to be transferred subsequently to Service battalions. The information on his marriage record would have been provided by Andrew himself and, unless the wedding was in a military chapel, it would not have been cross-checked with the Army authorities.

Bearing in mind the timing of his return, and the battalion's departure for Mespot, it is possible that he was not in time to rejoin them before they left, or was considered less physically fit for service in Mespot (which was particularly unhealthy as regards malaria etc), or simply that he was with 8th Bn during their training in UK and went to France with them. As Ian has said, he wouldn't have had any choice in the matter.

The multiplicity of types of infantry battalion is something which confuses everyone when they begin research!

Ron

You are probably right about that one!

thanks,

Hazel C.

Hello Hazel,

Welcome to the great war Forum, I wouldn't say your grandfather didn't have a choice, he would of wanted to rejoin his old unit. recoverying wounded men would have been order to other units becauce they were needed

best regards

Ian

[ss002d6252]

Is a "service" Bat. simply a fighting Bat. then? You are right about this stuff being confusing but it is also addictive!!!!!

Yes - they were the extra battalions raised as part of kitchener's 'new army' to supplement the regular army and territorial force.

[hazelclark]

thanks!

H.C.

Yes - they were the extra battalions raised as part of kitchener's 'new army' to supplement the regular army and territorial force.

[Stebie9173]

The "chain" of evacuation would mean several transfers between units (on paper) before either returning to the front line or being discharged.

The route was:

Serving with a battalion in France - he would be listed with the 1st Seaforths.

Then he was wounded.

He would then be evacuated by the following route - Stretcher bearers -> Regimental Aid Post -> stretcher bearers -> Field Ambulance -> ambulance lorry -> Casualty Clearing Station -> Ambulance Train -> General or Stationary Hospital at the coast. With each of these medical units he would be still classified as with 1st Battalion.

Then he would be evacuated to the UK aboard a Hospital Ship. Just prior to embarkation he would be "struck off" the list of men on the books of the 1st Battalion and posted on paper to the Regimental Depot. On arrival in the UK he would not be physically taken to the Depot but taken to hospital. During his stay in hospital for treatment he would be classified as with the Depot.

After discharge from hospital he would still be on the books of the Depot, and would receive a week or two in "Hospital Discharge Furlough" and go home on leave. The Furlough documents usually show him as a member of the battalion he was evacuated from (e.g. 1st battalion, and in the soldiers eyes he would remain a part of his active service battalion until he was posted to a Reserve battalion.)

After that he may be sent to a Command Depot in the UK for physiotherapy, in which case he would remain on the books of the Depot. Once a man was fit for Army duty in the UK, he would be transferred from the books of the Depot to the Reserve battalion (usually the 3rd Battalion) of his Regiment for eventual posting overseas.

On his first wounding he would have gone all the way through the system, and upon his second wound the loss of his arm would cause his discharge within weeks of his arrival back in the UK, once the doctors had stabilised his condition.

Steve.

[hazelclark]

Thankyou very much. That was most concise and explains the whole business!

Hazel C

The "chain" of evacuation would mean several transfers between units (on paper) before either returning to the front line or being discharged.

The route was:

Serving with a battalion in France - he would be listed with the 1st Seaforths.

Then he was wounded.

He would then be evacuated by the following route - Stretcher bearers -> Regimental Aid Post -> stretcher bearers -> Field Ambulance -> ambulance lorry -> Casualty Clearing Station -> Ambulance Train -> General or Stationary Hospital at the coast. With each of these medical units he would be still classified as with 1st Battalion.

Then he would be evacuated to the UK aboard a Hospital Ship. Just prior to embarkation he would be "struck off" the list of men on the books of the 1st Battalion and posted on paper to the Regimental Depot. On arrival in the UK he would not be physically taken to the Depot but taken to hospital. During his stay in hospital for treatment he would be classified as with the Depot.

After discharge from hospital he would still be on the books of the Depot, and would receive a week or two in "Hospital Discharge Furlough" and go home on leave. The Furlough documents usually show him as a member of the battalion he was evacuated from (e.g. 1st battalion, and in the soldiers eyes he would remain a part of his active service battalion until he was posted to a Reserve battalion.)

After that he may be sent to a Command Depot in the UK for physiotherapy, in which case he would remain on the books of the Depot. Once a man was fit for Army duty in the UK, he would be transferred from the books of the Depot to the Reserve battalion (usually the 3rd Battalion) of his Regiment for eventual posting overseas.

On his first wounding he would have gone all the way through the system, and upon his second wound the loss of his arm would cause his discharge within weeks of his arrival back in the UK, once the doctors had stabilised his condition.

Steve.