Northern Soul Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 The attached photo is of a memorial in Barrow-in-Furness (Cumbria). It was erected by public subscription in memory of the men from a particular area of the town - Ormsgill (if you've heard of it you'll know what it's like; if you haven't then you don't really want to know!) The names are listed chronologically (by row rather than by column) and, give or take a day in a couple of cases it is remarkably accurate. There is also newspaper evidence that this list was being compiled in early-1917, well before the end of the war so the dates are reliable. However, for years the identity of one name has remained elusive - "Pte. A. O'Brien May 13th 1916". I have never even come close to identifying this man so it's time to throw it open to fresh eyes. Any suggestions? Co-incidentally, Sergeant Cahill's Christian name was "Major." I bet that was the source of a few jokes. His brother was killed too but is not on this memorial.
grantowi Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Can't see anything locally in the BDM's Grant
museumtom Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Perhaps he died after discharge? Its the local papers for you my lad, he just might be in it. Cheers. Tom.
Old Owl Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Perhaps he died after discharge? Its the local papers for you my lad, he just might be in it. Cheers. Tom. Apparently the local papers are poor for Barrow in Furness and District, so may not have much luck?
museumtom Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Plan B would be to look for his records, MIC or SWB readout if he had one. If you assume he was discharged with wounds or illness he would be on a SWB list but you would need his regiment or number to begin. Cheers. Tom,
Northern Soul Posted 2 December , 2011 Author Posted 2 December , 2011 Apparently the local papers are poor for Barrow in Furness and District, so may not have much luck? Just the opposite, actually. Military casualties were reported in quite extensive detail but in years of going through them while researching all the other names in south Cumbria I've never come across a mention of this man. Similarly, as Grant says, there's no corresponding name in the BMD indexes, and absolutely nothing close in either Soldiers Died or CWGC. The man is a complete mystery despite the precise details.
grantowi Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Perhaps he died after discharge? Its the local papers for you my lad, he just might be in it. But he should still show up in the BDM's deaths for 2st / 3rd qtr 1916 And there are only 6 male A O'Brien's (apart from the 4 Amry ones who are on CWGC) listed in 1916 and I can't see any link to Barrow / Cumbria Could he have been part of the Aussie force ? Grant Edit - You say that the men mostly come from one area, could they be a Pals battalion ? might make a search a bit easier
Northern Soul Posted 2 December , 2011 Author Posted 2 December , 2011 But he should still show up in the BDM's deaths for 2st / 3rd qtr 1916 And there are only 6 male A O'Brien's (apart from the 4 Amry ones who are on CWGC) listed in 1916 and I can't see any link to Barrow / Cumbria Could he have been part of the Aussie force ? Grant Edit - You say that the men mostly come from one area, could they be a Pals battalion ? might make a search a bit easier No Pals battalion from my area - only TF (4th King's Own - hence my interest in them) Never found any Austalians/Kiwis/Canadians etc. that would fit. I have sometimes wondered if he actually served under an alias that was never detected...........although I could never find any casualty from or close to that date with a Barrow connection that couldn't be eliminated by other reasoning. I'm quite resigned to never being able to identify all the names on the memorials I have looked at; just one of those things. But when such specific detail is available it is a bit frustrating.
Northern Soul Posted 2 December , 2011 Author Posted 2 December , 2011 BOAG-O'BRIEN, WILLIAM ALBERT CEF? Mike Good call, but I can't find him in CWGC database and sadly his AF hasn't been digitised.
grantowi Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Name:O'BRIEN, ALBERT Initials:A Nationality:Australian Rank:Private Regiment/Service:Australian Infantry, A.I.F. Unit Text:2nd Bn. Date of Death:10/03/1916 Service No:1027 Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference:R.C. Sel. 17. 2114. (GRM/2*). Cemetery:SYDNEY (WAVERLEY) GENERAL CEMETERY The following three are bound for Aus: Name:Albt OBRIEN age 23 Date of departure:11 January 1908 Name:Albt S OBRIEN age u/k Date of departure:10 January 1908 Name:Mr Bert OBRIEN age 40 Date of departure:24 April 1913 Grant
aglastonbury Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 I think Tom has a good idea, he may have died post discharge thus not listed with CWGC so have a look for MIC. Grant's idea is a good one that he served with another country in the empire but was born locally. I would try having a look on the 1911 census see if you can find him. There is also the possibility that he joined using an alias due to been under age or some other reason (I don't want to speculate). Alex
grantowi Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 I think Tom has a good idea, he may have died post discharge thus not listed with CWGC But the death should still have been registered with the BDM registar if it occured in the UK I found an Albert O'Brien, b 1900 in Bootle / Millom. Visiting in Ulverston, Lancs in 1911 ( address is 37, Lancashire Road, Millom in 1901) Still can't see a death for him though Grant
CGM Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Name:O'BRIEN, ALBERT Initials:A Nationality:Australian Rank:Private Regiment/Service:Australian Infantry, A.I.F. Unit Text:2nd Bn. Date of Death:10/03/1916 Service No:1027 Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference:R.C. Sel. 17. 2114. (GRM/2*). Cemetery:SYDNEY (WAVERLEY) GENERAL CEMETERY ......... Grant This is odd - looking at the fate of this Albert O'BRIEN 1027 Albert O'BRIEN Regimental number 1027 Religion Roman Catholic Occupation Farmer Address 28 Pashley Street, Balmain, Sydney, New South Wales Marital status Single Age at embarkation 34 Next of kin Mother, Mrs Julia O'Brien, 28 Pashley Street, Balmain, Sydney, New South Wales Enlistment date 7 September 1914 Rank on enlistment Private Unit name 2nd Battalion, E Company AWM Embarkation Roll number 23/19/1 Embarkation details Unit embarked from Sydney, New South Wales, on board Transport A23 Suffolk on 18 October 1914 Regimental number from Nominal Roll 1021 Rank from Nominal Roll Private Unit from Nominal Roll 2nd Battalion Fate Returned to Australia 31 October 1917 From The AIF Project I will carry on searching.
CGM Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 The link to the records of Albert O'BRIEN, son of Julia, can be seen here My computer is wading through treacle and websites keep closing on me so I haven't been able to look through these yet.
Northern Soul Posted 3 December , 2011 Author Posted 3 December , 2011 I've had a look at the Australian soldier found by Grant and the basic details are tantalisingly close, but I can't make a connection yet. He himself is a bit of a mystery; he was a suicide (which, if it is him, may explain the lack of coverage in the newspapers as relatives would, understandably, not wish it to be aired publicly) but it isn't that clear from his service records whether he was still a serving soldier when he killed himself. Even stranger is that nowhere in his records or on his Attestation Forms does it give his place of birth - all just left blank. Not even a country! It's almost like the man didn't have a past. Judging from his age he could possibly have been the Albert O'Brien born in Bradford in 1882 but that's just speculation on my part. He certainly isn't the one born in Bootle RD though - far too old.
daggers Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 This would have been a good case for Geoff's famous but sadly defunct search engine. Using the abbreviated terms O'Br and O'By on the CWGC search gave nothing better than any earlier contribution. Hope you find him. D
Admin spof Posted 3 December , 2011 Admin Posted 3 December , 2011 The 1891 Census shows an Albert O'Brien aged 8 living in Bradford with his mother Annie. There was an Albert O'Brien born at Bathurst in rural NSW in 1880. His parents were William John and Lydia Julia O'Brien. For disposal of his medals, his mother stated his fasther had been dead for "about 28 years" and a William J O'Brien died at Bathurst in 1890. Not conclusive but it is pointing to the AIF man not being your A O'Brien.
CGM Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 I did manage to open Mapping Our Anzacs and it looks to me that they haven't any entries for Cumbria.
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