RaySearching Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Hi all I am seeking the location and in what action the following 2nd Lieut lost his Life 2nd Lieut IORWERTH GLYNDWR JOHN 3rd Bn. attd. 1st Bn., 2nd Lieut South Wales borderers Iorwerth was killed in action on the 25 February 1916 just 4 months prior to the opening of the battle of the Somme I am seeking to determine if he was Killed in any specific action or if he was just killed in general day to day skirmishes any info would be most appreciated Educated at Balliol College He was the son of Edward Thomas an Iron Ore Merchant / industrialist and politician and Margaret John, of Llanidan Hall Llanfair P G Anglesey , later of 63, Warwick Square, London Iorwerth can be found on the 1901 census residing with his parents and siblings at The Oatlands Grove Hill Middlesbrough a schoolboy aged 6 On the 1911 census he can be found residing with his parents and siblings a Student aged 16 at Llanidan Hall Llanfair P G Anglesey (also his fathers address on his Mic) Born Middlesbrough. 1894 ST. MARY'S A.D.S. CEMETERY, HAISNES Regards Ray
little bob Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Ray Have been looking over the War Diary for 1st Battalion South Wales borderers and can't find 2nd Lieut John by name. Loos 24th February 1916 Dull and misty with further falls of snow.The battalion is not to be relieved tonight. At 7.0 pm two small mines were blown up by us in HART'S CRATER following which the 1st Gloucestershire Regiment attacked.We managed to establish ourselves on the right lip of the crater and dug in a post.Late at night a German prisoner was braught in,he had been thrown into our wire by the force of the explosion. Loos/Les Brebis. 25th February 1916. At 5.0am relieved the Gloucester's party and at 5.15 the enemy bombed us out of the position.A counter attack was at once organised and about 30 Germans were found to be massing in the crater.They were dispersed by grenade and machine gun fire and we retook the lost position.The Germans replied with heavy trench mortar and grenade fire , but we held on and in half an hour all was quiet again,our casualties were 6 . At night we were relieved by the Loyal North Lancs and proceeded to billets at LES BREBIS. Bob
little bob Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Battalion had relieved the 2nd Munsters on 23/2/1916, no mention of casualties in the war diary until 26/2/1916. Bob
RaySearching Posted 2 December , 2011 Author Posted 2 December , 2011 BOB Many thanks for the war diary look up it appears that 2nd Lt John was most likely among the 6 casualties of the 25/Feb 1916 mentioned in the war diary Curiously the cemetery record (St. Mary's A.D.S. Cemetery) shows only another 1 casualty for that date SMITH W T United Kingdom Private 14822 South Wales borderers 25/02/1916 Age: 24 XIII. C. 4. Although this implies nothing as Most casualties were found in isolated graves or small burial plots on the battlefield. After the war (St. Mary's A.D.S. Cemetery was created by the concentration of these graves into one site after the war the remaing 4 bodys I presume lost to the battlefield Thanks Regards Ray
Old Owl Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Hi Ray, According to the Balliol College Book, vol 1: "After his training with the Oxford O.T.C., he was gazetted on April 12th,1915, joined the Special Reserve of Officers, and was Second Lieutenant in the South Wales borderers. He left for France on October 1st,1915. He was killed in France near Loos on February 25th,1916, by a shell from a trench mortar while on duty in the front line. His Commanding Officer describes him as "such a clever boy, always willing to do anything that was wanted." There is a little more and a portrait of him in mufti. If you would like a copy please P.M. me your email. Hope this helps, Robert
little bob Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 War Diary NOEUX LES MINES. 5th October 1915. After slight training in the morning the battalion marched to LOOS to relieve the Suffolk Reg.In LOOS ROAD REDOUBT. The day was quiet and the weather bad. LOOS 6th October 1915. The battalion remains in the redoubt,there was slight shelling in the three forward coys., A, C &D. The weather remained fair-work on our trenches continued. Eight officers join us including Major B.W.Collier 1/SWB. 2/Lt .Lynn-Thomas 1/SWB. 2/Lt. Inglis, 2/Lt.Ward-Jones, 2/Lt.Bockley, 2/Lt .Robertson, 2/Lt.Davies, 2/Lt.John 3/SWB. Major Collier takes over command,Lt.Col.Gwynne admitted to hospital. Bob
RaySearching Posted 2 December , 2011 Author Posted 2 December , 2011 Robert Excellent fits in nicely with Bobs war diary P M on the way I did come across a small portrait of Iorwerth earlier in the day whilst searching Welsh websites which I have saved It may not be the same Photo as yours I also found plenty of info on his father including a portrait but found little info on Iorwerth himself Many Thanks for you assistance Regards Ray
RaySearching Posted 2 December , 2011 Author Posted 2 December , 2011 Bob Thanks for the additional info Quote Eight officers join us including Major B.W.Collier 1/SWB. 2/Lt .Lynn-Thomas 1/SWB. 2/Lt. Inglis, 2/Lt.Ward-Jones, 2/Lt.Bockley, 2/Lt .Robertson, 2/Lt.Davies, 2/Lt.John 3/SWB. fresh from officer traning school ? regards Ray
clive_hughes Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Hi Ray, From the Anglesey end I don't think I can add a lot to this chap's details. He is mentioned on the war memorial at Brynsiencyn, which is the main village in Llanidan parish. He also heads the list of the parish war dead on the Llanidan panel of the North Wales Heroes Memorial Arch in Bangor, Gwynedd: http://www.bangorcivicsociety.org.uk/pages/arch/DSCF4445.htm If you want an image of the Brynsiencyn memorial please send me your email address via PM. Clive
little bob Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Ray Another casualty of 25/2/1916. Pte. 24935 Thomas Joseph Payne formerly 44383 R.A.M.C. Arras Memorial. Bob
larney Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 I take it you have this photo of my namesake? Or this SteveJ.
geraint Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Steve Can you illuminate the Welsh couplet on his gravestone, and areyou related to the Penbre John family?
larney Posted 4 December , 2011 Posted 4 December , 2011 Geraint, I'm not related to Iorwerth John, but the John family all originally came from the Carmarthenshire area many moons ago (the Norman times). Here's a close up of the Welsh enscription on his headstone- Cheers, SteveJ.
clive_hughes Posted 4 December , 2011 Posted 4 December , 2011 Epitaph: "One of the most likeable sons of Wales" "His sacrifice will not be passed by / And his dear name will not be forgotten" The second couplet is a slightly altered quote from the poem Nid A'n Ango (Not Forgotten) by Ellis Humphrey Evans alias Hedd Wyn, who was killed at Pilckem Ridge on 31 July 1917 with 15th RWF. The original has "face" for "name" in the second part. It's not unusual to see it being used on gravestones - I know of six such CWGC epitaphs in Belgium, to say nothing of France. I would have expected a Welsh epitaph given his father's interests in matters Celtic. I believe there is also a Iorwerth Glyndwr John Shield established as a prize in the 1920s for Welsh folk singing at the annual National Eisteddfod. Clive
RaySearching Posted 4 December , 2011 Author Posted 4 December , 2011 Hi As Iorwerth came from a wealthy family His Parents are Likely to have a Substantial Monumental Grave Marker which may ( Most Likely to have ) a Memorial Inscription For Iorwerth included on the Memorial Grave Marker Any Idea where his parents Grave lies? Detail of his Father Thomas can be found on Welsh Biographies online Here and a photo of his father Is there any welsh speakers on the Forum who are a able to provide a translation of the inscription from the Welsh language from Iorwerth's CWGC headstone picture kindly posted by SteveJ ? Edit looks like one has been added By Clive whilst i was typing regards Ray
larney Posted 4 December , 2011 Posted 4 December , 2011 Thanks Steve. Bit of Norman blood ehh! We're made up of all sorts down in Laugharne- by all accounts Norman, Flemish, Viking, Welsh and English! As Dylan Thomas once said, it's a strange town!
Hywyn Posted 5 December , 2011 Posted 5 December , 2011 I was going through North Wales Chronicle 10th March 1916 today and there is a short article on him which includes a quote from 2nd Lt Dan Williams of the same battalion " He was in the same company as myself and was killed, together with a Sergeant, while going his rounds of the trenches on duty. I think it must have been a large trench mortar bomb which killed the two..." PM me your email if you want a scan. Hywyn
Guest Duckworth Posted 31 August , 2016 Posted 31 August , 2016 New to this site - I can add that IG John attended New College, Harrogate (of Baptist foundation) from Winter '06 - Summer '09. The school merged with Ashville College in the 1930s and his name is on the school War Memorial. Can provide a copy if interested. Many thanks for the cascade of added value in that thread of 5 years ago.
RaySearching Posted 31 August , 2016 Author Posted 31 August , 2016 Welcome to the forum Duckworth Thanks for the info on his early education most appreciated Also and a belated thanks to Hywyn for his reply Regards Ray
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