mikelimemortar Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Got a 390mm high 113 mm Dia across rim brass shell case. The shell would have 90mm dia from the open end, which is not crimpted. On the base it has-- PATRONENFABRIK, KARLSRUHE, V11, 1908, 111 0, 407, a crown with m underneath. The karlsruhe has a logo of petals?, eyelashes?, a knotted ribbon? at each end of it. Can anyone give an idea of what it would be fired from etc, Thanks Mike.
centurion Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Possibly a Krupp C/73 field gun, a 9 cm weapon already obsolete in 1908 but retained up into WW1. This probably isn't the best sub forum for this question as not all artillery types are interested in aircraft and may not read it..
TonyE Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 If it has a crown over an "M" it is a naval shell, this stamp being the property mark of the Kreigsmarinen. (if that is the proper title for the Imperial Navy) Regards TonyE
Torrey McLean Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Got a 390mm high 113 mm Dia across rim brass shell case. The shell would have 90mm dia from the open end, which is not crimpted. On the base it has-- PATRONENFABRIK, KARLSRUHE, V11, 1908, 111 0, 407, a crown with m underneath. The karlsruhe has a logo of petals?, eyelashes?, a knotted ribbon? at each end of it. Can anyone give an idea of what it would be fired from etc, Thanks Mike. Hello, Mike - As Tony wrote, it is a naval shell case, made in July 1908. It probably is a 88x390 case for a shell fired by the short-range 88mm submarine deck gun (and for other ships). Regards, Torrey
SiegeGunner Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 If it has a crown over an "M" it is a naval shell, this stamp being the property mark of the Kreigsmarinen(if that is the proper title for the Imperial Navy). Kaiserliche Marine, 1871-1919, Kriegsmarine, 1935-45. So 'The War in the Air' is definitely not the best place for this thread! Edit: Then again, Torrey has now provided an answer with which I would tend to agree. Nevertheless, I will ask the Mods to move the thread to 'Ships & Navies' in case there is more information still to be had from the naval fraternity.
centurion Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Hello, Mike - As Tony wrote, it is a naval shell case, made in July 1908. It probably is a 88x390 case for a shell fired by the short-range 88mm submarine deck gun As the early U boats do not appear to have had deck guns this seems unlikely. I think U25 launched in 1913 was the first so armed. Edit In 1908 Germany only had 2 U boats U1 http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/u1.jpg and U2 http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/u2.jpg neither has a deck gun. Even U25 appears to have had the gun fitted sometime after launch.
Cnock Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 The gun was used on torpedo-boats and other small vessels before WWI Cnock
SiegeGunner Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 Hello, Mike - As Tony wrote, it is a naval shell case, made in July 1908. It probably is a 88x390 case for a shell fired by the short-range 88mm submarine deck gun (and for other ships). Note Torrey's ('and for other ships'), which Centurion chose to omit from his quote.
Cnock Posted 2 December , 2011 Posted 2 December , 2011 URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/88cm.jpg/][/url] Uploaded with ImageShack.us comparative short and long 8,8 cm case I have seen a short case dated 1901 regards, Cnock
centurion Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Note Torrey's ('and for other ships'), which Centurion chose to omit from his quote. Yes because it was an afterside and the posting implied that it was a submarine gun Edit see my next post
centurion Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 The gun was used on torpedo-boats and other small vessels before WWI Cnock No I think not as I assume that what you mean is the 8.8 cm/45 (3.46") Tbts KL/45 which I believe was not so fitted until after 1908. The round could have been for either the 8.8 cm/35 SK L/35 which was used on coastal defence ships (old battleships and cruisers) as an anti torpedo boat gun or the 8.8 cm/30 SK L/30 which was used on larger coastal gun boats and later retro fitted to older torpedo boats. None of these guns were fitted as submarine deck guns. The 8.8 cm submarine guns were a further development of which there were several varieties.
SiegeGunner Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Indeed, but it did not imply that the gun was installed on a submarine of 1908 vintage, as you chose to assume. Hopefully Michael Lowrey will surface to advise whether the same short 8.8cm gun was indeed mounted on WW1 U-boats.
Cnock Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Centurion, I only said the short case 8,8 cm was used before WWI for deck gun , I didn't talk about length of gunbarrel. regards, Cnock
centurion Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Centurion, I only said the short case 8,8 cm was used before WWI for deck gun , I didn't talk about length of gunbarrel. regards, Cnock There was no difference between the length of the 8.8 cm/35 SK L/35, the 8.8 cm/30 SK L/30 and the 8.8 cm/30 Ubts L/30 and the 8.8 cm Ubts + Tbts Flak L/30 all of which were about 2.640 m The latter two were used as U boat deck guns and the 8.8 cm Ubts + Tbts Flak L/30 introduced C 1916 was a multi purpose gun also used on Toprpedo and gun boats. However there seems to have been significant difference in breech pressure when fired and also muzzle velocity between all of these which would imply different charges/rounds were used. The submarine guns had a folding or a light weight mounting and appear to have had a lower breech pressure/ muzzle velocity. The 8.8 cm/30 Ubts L/30 had two types of mounting and also two types of sight. They were introduced in WW1 and U18 - 25 had them mounted retrospectively. All of this would suggest that the round in question was made for the 8.8 cm/35 SK L/35. Unless basic English has changed " a shell fired by the short-range 88mm submarine deck gun (and for other ships)." implies that is was made for a submarine gun (also mounted on other ships). This could not have been the case as only the 8.8 cm Ubts + Tbts Flak L/30 was used on both submarines and surface ships.
Cnock Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Hi Centurion, don't know what is Your problem, thought You would have a problem with lenght of barrels, otherwise I don't know where You Your submarine gun obsession was born. You just like to complicate matters To keep it simple have a short case 8,8 cm dated 1905, that was found in an U-Boat sunk in 1916 regards, Cnock
centurion Posted 3 December , 2011 Posted 3 December , 2011 Hi Centurion, don't know what is Your problem, thought You would have a problem with lenght of barrels, otherwise I don't know where You Your submarine gun obsession was born. You just like to complicate matters To keep it simple have a short case 8,8 cm dated 1905, that was found in an U-Boat sunk in 1916 regards, Cnock Very possible but it wasn't originally made for a submarine gun (as none existed in 1905) Seeemples
Michael Lowrey Posted 12 January , 2014 Posted 12 January , 2014 I just came across this thread. WWI U-boat gun armament is rather confusing. That said, the two gun types most commonly carried were 10.5cm/45 and 8.8cm guns. (Exactly which types were carried would depend upon the type of submarine, and varied by boat within a class, and could even vary over time.) 8.8.cm/30 guns were easily the most commonly carried 8.8cm variant, though 8.8cm/35 and 8.8cm/45 were fitted at times on U-series torpedo attack boats. Now, for purposes of this thread, here’s the important point: The Patrone (cartridge) was common for the 8.8cm Tbts K. L/30, L35, and L45 and the Ubts K. L/30. We know this because divers have brought up ready use ammunition containers from sunk U-boats... As for the date of shells, I know of a 8.8cm shell made at Magdeburg in 1909 that was recovered from a U-boat sunk in January 1918.
2pounder Posted 14 January , 2014 Posted 14 January , 2014 the best forum and source of information on ammunition is BOCN
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