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museumtom

Would a Detective Sgt, who accompanied Kitchener

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museumtom

I cannot find a Detective on the CWGC who accompanied Kitchener to Russia and died on the Hampshire. This begs the question should he be in the CWGC?

Regards.

Tom.

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Terry Denham

Tom

No as he was a civilian.

The team with Kitchener was investigated by Neil York some years ago and two (IIRC) non-coms were added by CWGC as a result.

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museumtom

Thanks Terry, much appreciated, but if my man was on the team should he be included? He was Detective Sergeant McLoughlin.

Kind regards.

Tom.

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Terry Denham

No - Because he was a civilian.

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museumtom

Ok so.

Thanks Terry.

Cheers.

Tom.

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Magnumbellum

The Metropolitan Police probably has some roll of members killed during the Great War.

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David_Underdown

Many records relating to service in the Met are at The National Archives under the MEPO lettercode. If you look at the Your Archives wiki you'll see that someone's done slot of work on the indexes and various other service related things, with images of many documents on Flickr. I certainly found a contemporary annotation for one of my chaps recording his death in action

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museumtom

Thank you lads for all the pointers and information.

Its very much appreciated.

Kind regards.

Tom.

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MichaelBully

Fascinating to read Tom. I am interested in the HMS Hampshire sinking. Why was Detective Sergeant McLoughlin taking part in this mission ? Any ideas? regards, Michael Bully

EDIT Just seem from the Police roll of honour that Detective Sergeant McLoughlin was Lord Kitchener's bodyguard.

Thanks Terry, much appreciated, but if my man was on the team should he be included? He was Detective Sergeant McLoughlin.

Kind regards.

Tom.

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scuber1122

DS Mc Loughlin was 37 years old he was on Special Branch Duty - ( I managed to pick up a roll of all officers who have died on duty at the Opening of the Police National Memorial)

Bob

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Guest Cran0g

Hi Folks,

I know this is an old thread but it popped up in connection with some research I was doing for a book - I'm sure MuseumTom got his answer long ago. MacLaughlin (I believe that's the correct spelling) was part of Kitchener's protection detail. He travelled with him from Kings Cross station 4-5 June 1916 and, of course, died on the Hampshire. Official records put the death toll at about 650 officers and men but it is now reckoned that it was in excess of 720. Almost immediately, conspiracy theories kicked off - with Fritz Duquesne, a Boer with a personal hatred of Kitchener, actually claiming that he got on board disguised as Russian Count, signalled a waiting submarine and then escaped in a rubber boat when the ship was subsequently torpedoed. The fact that the weather was so bad that no submarine could have got a decent shot off and his "rubber boat" would have been turning somersaults did nothing to dampen is ardour and he was actually awarded the Iron Cross by the Kaiser for killing Kitchener.

But there were lots of sneaky stuff going about at the time. As the train was pulling in to Thurso, Lt Col Fitzgerald (K's PSO) wrote to his family "If my friend and I do not return, you can be sure it has been because of foul play. But I hope for the best".

Great fun researching it.

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David Filsell

I assume the main reason to protect someone like Kitchener was a potential Irish assassination attempt.

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Scalyback

I assume the main reason to protect someone like Kitchener was a potential Irish assassination attempt.

On a ship with lots of armed men? Not questioning you David by the way! Just can not figure out then(and now) military personal for what ever reason need police protection when they are members of an armed force with lots of other men around armed to the teeth.

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bill24chev

On a ship with lots of armed men? Not questioning you David by the way! Just can not figure out then(and now) military personal for what ever reason need police protection when they are members of an armed force with lots of other men around armed to the teeth.

Yes, but the Civilian Police would have been required to provide a legal armed protection at least until he embarked on HMS Hampshire and then to co-ordinate protection when arrived in Russia.

Churchill, in WW2 also had a civilian armed guard

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David Filsell

No not specifically on ship, but a permanent security posting where ever there may be risk as is done now with politicos and royals

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Scalyback

Thanks both. Churchill was a civilian and his body guard was ex met?

My point being more the army royals etc.

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tullybrone

Thanks both. Churchill was a civilian and his body guard was ex met?

Hi,

Churchill's bodyguard 1921/1935 was Det Insp Walter Thompson. He retired in 1935 to become a green grocer.

He was also Churchill's bodyguard 1939/1945 at Churchill's request. He was reappointed to the Metropolitan Police for that purpose.

Steve Y

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mbriscoe

There is an appeal to help find descendants of Detective Sergeant Matthew McLoughlin

Appeal For Family Of Kitchener's Bodyguard

Matthew McLoughlin is to be honoured a century after he died guarding First World War Field Marshal Lord Kitchener.

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tullybrone

Hi,

Link to Met Police request also posted on this old topic 26th May....

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=172382&view=getnewpost&hl=&fromsearch=1

A ww2talk member quickly found 2 or 3 mentions of Det Sgt McLoughlin on Ancestry public family trees.

Presumably Met Police cutbacks prevented such basic research before making their request....

Steve Y

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mbriscoe

OK I did a search on the name of the detective, "Matthew McLoughlin" but did not get any matches.

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