Not POW but heldby Spanish authoroties

[bts1970]

I know that this is not strictly a POW related thread but i am interested into how my man may have "escaped".

I suspect that they were assisted on there way,back home (10 days journey)via France. My second question is concerning men "Interned" in the Netherlands. Were these men kept under restrictions by the Dutch or was it a more "Gentlemans" agreement.

Bob

WILLOUGHY Stanley.

Enlisted: (Short Service, 3 years with the Colours), 31/08/1914, Swindon.

Age given: 19 years 8 months.

Occupation: Farmer.

Address / Next Of Kin, family details: NOK listed as Henry Willoughby, Bell Inn, Purton Stoke.

MIC details / Medal entitlement.

T2/017277 Army Service Corps (T2 indicates horse transport, Kitcheners 2nd Army).

Silver War badge.

Extracts from: Pension record.

08/09/1914 120 Coy, Aldershot. 120 Company ASC were part of the 13th Division, the ASC did not sail with the Division to Gallipoli and were transferred to the 28th Divisional train destined for service in Salonika.

25/10/1915 Embarked at Avonmouth on SS Woodfield, a steamer transporting petrol to the Dardanelles, first destination Gibraltar, Austro-Hungarian submarines were known to operate in the area.

03/11/1915 Papers record “slightly” wounded SS Woodfield. Further details are recoded; Interned at Melilla (Spain) on sinking of H.M.T Woodfield in Mediterranean.

The SM U-38 was commanded by Kapitanleutnant Christian August Max Ahlmann Valentiner, one of Germany's most revered commanders who was awarded Prussia's highest award, the "Pour le Merite" also known as the Blue Max. U-38 was of a type armed with two guns, one 4.1 in. and one 22-pounder, with 4 to 6 torpedo tubes and 8 to 12 torpedoes. The submarine needed to surface every 48 hours to re-charge its batteries. On November 3rd 1915, having passed the Strait of Gibraltar Valentiner spotted the Woodfield 40 miles East-south-east of Ceuta on the Moroccan coast. The U-38 opened fire from the surface. It is not clear how the engagement started, but the rules of War stated that crews of Merchant shipping were to be allowed to get to a place of safety, other than lifeboats, before their ships may be sunk, unless they posed an immediate danger. Whether the Woodfield was armed is not clear. Seven men of the ASC and the ship's carpenter were killed when a shell, or shells, hit the ship. Two boats did get off and the survivors were landed at Melilla further down the coast of Morocco, 45 British and 9 Arabs were later recorded as being in the hands of Spanish Authorities. After three hours, Valentiner sank the Woodfield with a torpedo. The interned men were later moved to Malaga.

12/02/1916 Escaped from Malaga Spain.

21/02/1916 Home.

17/06/1916 Discharged, being no longer physically fit forward.

Evidence for inclusion on the Purton Parish list: Name listed in the Memorial book in St Mary’s Church (Royal Navy, no evidence found supporting this entry), 1918 voters list for Purton Parish ®, Bell Inn, 1915 Kelly’s directory (Bell Inn), National Archives (Pension record).

[Doug Johnson]

Bob,

Second question first. There were two classes of internees in Holland. The first were belligerents who were interned by the Dutch for the duration of the war (unless repatriated for some reason). These were held under duress and there were some escape attempts until the UK ordered the officers to give their parole which allowed the Dutch to hold them under a less restricted regime. The second class were those interned under agreement between the UK and German authorities where certain classes were exchanged into Holland with the permission of the Dutch. These were allowed total freedom, the Dutch having no real interest in them as the agreement was between the UK and Germany and any enforcement was down to them.

As to Stanley, I presume he was interned as a belligerent which would seem to fit the circumstances though I have no idea about the legality of interning "shipwrecked" mariners. As there were numerous of them interned my guess would be that this was a genuine escape though how difficult it was I don't know. As the UK was represented in Spain it may be that they helped in some way once he got out.

It is an interesting story and many Brits were interned in odd locations such as Norway and Denmark and their stories are almost completely overlooked.

Doug

[bts1970]

Doug

Many thanks, i believe that there is a file at the NA concerning this whole affair. May well be worth the monies in getting a copy

Bob

Edit

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=3354917&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5&j=1

[centurion]

As a soldier in service who was a passenger of a ship sunk through enemy activity your man would not qualify as a shipwrecked sailor and the Spanish Authorities were correct in interning him. (The rules on shipwrecked sailors appear quite complex and obscure and I suspect that some countries hung on to them anyway 'just in case'). In effect your man was treated in the same way as those who retreated across the Belgian/Dutch border in 1914

Men could end up interned in a neutral country in a variety of ways

• Taking refuge from enemy action (eg retreating across the border, ship being forced to flee into neutral waters etc)
  
• Accident (eg aircraft getting lost and landing in neutral country, ship forced by storm into neutral waters)
  
• Design (e.g deserting across a border [as did several hundred Germans into the Netherlands], aircraft deliberately landing in neutral territory rather than in enemy territory [as happened with some naval aircraft running out of fuel]).
  
• By Agreement (as part of a prisoner exchange scheme. These originated as humanitarian schemes for the very sick or badly wounded but were later extended to some men who had been POWs for some time and were deemed to be suffering from "barbed wire fever").
  

In some countries men who gave their parole and men exchanged were allowed considerable freedom and could rent accommodation away from the camps, take jobs (if they could find them) and even take leave in their home country. British officers in the Netherlands set up and ran some clubs and cafes for their fellow internees.

Sometimes 'blind eyes' were turned so for example training aircraft from Canada accidentally landing in neutral USA were allowed to fly back (in one case after a whip round for petrol [gasoline] ) and some German deserters in the Netherlands were allowed to leave and seek refuge in the USA

[Doug Johnson]

Bob,

There are eight documents listed and, if they are like the rest of the FO383, the whole volume will be quite thick and tightly bound. I suspect that they may run to quite a few pages so ordering them may be expensive but probably worth an enquiry. It really needs someone to visit the NA with a camera.

The interesting bit is that all the prisoners were allowed to give their parole which obviously counted for a lot back then but clearly the wording had to be very specific and without loopholes which would allow the prisoners latitude on its interpretation. I have seen similar things with PoWs in Germany regarding parole.

Centurion,

The internment of sailors etc is a subject that is outside my field but an interesting episode occurred in 1918 when the Spanish vessel, the Ingotz Mendi ran aground off Denmark. The vessel had been captured by the "Wolf" (so much for being a neutral vessel) and was carrying a prize crew and a load of PoWs back to Germany. At first the crew were allowed to attempt to refloat it but the Danish authorities got suspicious and eventually released the PoWs and interned the German prize crew (the PoWs were all civilian and were either women or old men, all of which would have been eligible for repatriation once they got to Germany but probably some considerable time later).

Do you know if the OR's in Holland from the RND were allowed to give their parole or was it just for officers?

Doug

[centurion]

Centurion,

Do you know if the OR's in Holland from the RND were allowed to give their parole or was it just for officers?

Doug

As far as the RND were concerned I don't know but I do know that some British OR internees were allowed significant liberty including living out side camps and walking around Dutch towns and cities (and the bars thereof) which would suggest some sort of parole.

In Germany at least one British officer managed to confuse the camp authorities into thinking he had given his parole when he hadn't and then escaped. This was regarded as legitimate (it also had the effect of getting the camp commandant transferred to the Western Front).

[bts1970]

Just to further this mans research.

I can only find an MIC for a SWB?

Surely whilst not entitled to one of the stars he would get the Victory & BWM?

Bob

[mmm45]

You'd have to look at the eligibility criteria for campaign medals as he was army probably differing quals than Naval criteria and that he never actually served in a designated Theatre of War....harsh though after been sunk by enemy action!!

Ady

[Guest tellmemore]

Bob,

Having stumbled across this forum whilst researching family history, I thought you might be interested to know that Stanley Willoughby was my great-grandfather. His daughter, Rose, the second of his three daughters, being my grandmother.

Laura