Trying to get info on a Royal Field Artillery gunner

[brianoleary82]

Hi folks,

I am trying to find out information about the British Army career of my grandfather, Thomas Burke of Kildare, Ireland (1876-1933).

I started at with no information whatsoever other than he was a Boer War and Great War veteran, and there was no service/pension records matching him.

However, I recently discovered he was in the Irish Free State (regular) army after for one year, including the last month or two of the Irish Civil War, after which he was demobbed.

I recently got his service records from them, and his attestation form states that he had been a Gunner in the UK's Royal Field Artillery for 3 years, 9 months.

So, I was quite delighted with that info. However, I tried to match this with the WWI Medal Cards, but there was no Gunner Thomas Burke in the RFA - though there was a few with the Royal Garrison Artillery.

I'm working off the supposition that he was indeed with the RFA: in that case, I've narrowed it down to 3 Thomas Burkes from the card index: Acting Bombardier (L/1933), Driver (55643) and another Driver (136155).

I guess that he must have joined some time in later 1916 anyway if his 3 years and 9 months service is to work out.

Does anybody think it is possible that one of the Drivers/Acting Bombardiers may have been listed as a Gunner later? I understand that Driver and Gunner were of equal rank in the Artillery and often their jobs could be interchangable depending on the contingencies of battle - could this be a clue?

I only have one war story handed down, and that is that in one attack by the Germans that there were 15 or so of them in their position, and all but Thomas Burke were killed by a German bomb - he was apparently shell shocked as a result.

Do people think I have found out as much as I can expect to find out, or is there any other avenues worth pursuing?

Many thanks in advance!

Kat

[ss002d6252]

These are the Thomas Burkes shown on the Boer War Medal Rolls

Thomas Burke 4th Battalion King's Liverpool South Africa 1899-1902

Thomas Burke 1st Imperial Light Horse South Africa 1899-1902

Thomas Burke 2nd Battalion Cheshire Regiment South Africa 1899-1902

Thomas Burke Commander In Chief's Body Guard South Africa 1899-1902

Thomas Burke 1st Scottish Horse South Africa 1899-1902

Thomas Burke 1st Battalion Scots Guards South Africa 1899-1902

[ss002d6252]

I understand that Driver and Gunner were of equal rank in the Artillery and often their jobs could be interchangable depending on the contingencies of battle

A gunner may be able to drive but I doubt that a driver would be used as a gunner (if he was a trained gunner I doubt they'd let him away from a gun crew)

I guess that he must have joined some time in later 1916 anyway if his 3 years and 9 months service is to work out.

This may suggest he was re-enlisted under the military service act of 1916 and had prior service that had time expired.

[brianoleary82]

Thanks for the reply. Hmm, I don't see any Irish regiments or artillery based-regiments, so doesn't look like any immediate clues to any of the Boer War Burkes you came up with ss002d6252 - thanks for looking them up for me!

Conscription wasn't applied to Ireland with the 1916 Act, so probably didn't have an impact on him - unless he was working in England at the time, which is a possibility.

Yeah, I really don't know what to make of the Gunner/RFA reference as it doesn't really match up with the medal card records - and my mother remembers his war medals (possibly a cousin has them now, but I've no hope of finding them), so I don't think he'd have made up the career history to make it easier to get a job with the Irish Free State army. Very confusing!

[kildaremark]

Kat,

The 1916 Meath roll of honour only lists men who enlisted during the war as at about March 1916 so if he enlisted before the war he will not be included on the list and not very likely if he enlisted abroad.

The Irish army records normally asks for the nature of service in foreign armies so I would have thought it should give a little bit more than just the duration in the RFA.

Looking at the Medal Index Cards and bearing in my his age (37 in 1915), I would guess that Thomas Burke 12576 who served in a Reserve Brigade as a very strong possibility who shouldn't be discounted. This man served from May 1915 to June 1918, just over three years which is not far off your man's 3 years 9 months. A photograph of the man may help. If there are only two medals then you could discount the man with the 1915 star. Better still, if you got access to the medals, the service number is on the side. A photograph would of course help very much.

I cant find him in 1901 or 1911 in the Irish census. Finding his census record might help somewhat/

Mark

[brianoleary82]

Thanks for that Mark.

Definitely the attestation form for the Free State army says just Gunner, RFA and 3 years 9 months for previous service.

I don't know any of the family living in his area, but I might just write a few begging letters to Burkes in the village in the hope they might put me in contact with someone that might have photos or something - a long shot, but might yield results!

Thanks a mil!

[justingrimwood]

I've checked the Silver War Badge records on Ancestry and have the following possible matches.

Name:Thomas Burke

Discharge Unit:6b Res. Bde. R.F.A.

Regiment Number:12576

Rank:Dvr.

Enlisted 08-05-1915, Discharged 08-06-1916, Sickness 24 2(a) (i)

Name: Thomas Burke

Discharge Unit:R.G.A.

Regiment Number:41145

Rank:L/Bdr

Unit:Royal Garrison Artillery (Dover)

Enlisted 09-07-1914. Discharged 20-02-1919, Para.392 (xvia) K.R

[brianoleary82]

Thanks Justin, some great extra info there to help identify him!

[ss002d6252]

Name:Thomas Burke

Discharge Unit:6b Res. Bde. R.F.A.

Regiment Number:12576

Rank:Dvr.

Enlisted 08-05-1915, Discharged 08-06-1916, Sickness 24 2(a) (i)

He was discharged aged 24.

[brianoleary82]

Would anyone be able to provide information on the length of service of Thomas Burke L/1933 of the Royal Field Artillery please?

Having narrowed down the Thomas Burkes in the MICs, this would be my last hope of identification.

I see that he has an entry on the WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, where he is listed as a "Gunner/Lance Bombardier", but I cannot see any details from the roll itself. Would my grandfather's known service of 3 years 9 months or age at discharge (about 42, depending on year) correspond with the information on the roll?

Would greatly appreciate if anyone could shed further light on this.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Kat

[David Porter]

Kat,

The number L/1933 seems to correspond with men posted to 39th Divisional Artillery in late 1915 and 184 Brigade RFA in particular.

There is also a possible link with Dublin. However slightly later numbers may point to 40th Divisional Artillery as shown below:

L/1910 = Thomas Lynch enlisted in Dublin on November 16, 1915, posted to D/184 (39th Division)

L/1915 = James Alfred Pope enlisted Catford on October 25, 1915, posted to A/184 (39th Division)

L/1927 = James Whelan enlisted in Dublin on November 5, 1915, posted to B/184 (39th Division)

L/1933 = Thomas Burke enlisted in ??, posted to ??

L/1950 = Percy Burgon enlisted in Sheffield on January 28, 1916, posted to B/188 (40th Division)

If you go by a November 1915 enlistment, 3 years 9 months takes one to August 1919. This would indicate a short period with an Army of Occupation.

There is certainly nothing (yet) to rule this man out as a candidate. In fact, I think some of the men listed were also in their late 30s.

[brianoleary82]

David,

That really is magnificent stuff, thanks so much for that. It opens up a new line of investigation.

I see from "A short history of the 39th (Deptford) Divisional Artillery 1915-1918" that the 184th Brigade RFA was disbanded at the end of Nov 1916, but was mostly reabsorbed into the division's other artillery brigades - the division itself was disbanded and the men demobbed in July 1919. If we presume (and it still very much is a presumption) that Thomas Burke L/1933 enlisted in Dublin (very close to his home) in Oct/Nov 1915 and went into the 184th Brigade, being demobbed in July 1919 would certainly bring him into the 3 year 9 month window that I was looking for.

I know that I'll never know 100% that L/1933 was my grandfather (unless a cousin roots out a service medal somewhere), but this certainly gives a great start to look into some strong possibilities for his service.

Many thanks again David for your kind assistance.

Regards,

Kat