Retreat to the Hindenburg line

[RammyLad1]

If this has been covered before then please forgive me, but when the German army withdrew to to the Hindenburg line in 1917 did this line, or series of lines, extend as far north as Passchendaele? From what I understand they strategically retreated to shorten the amount of front that they held, and by doing so created a vast reserve of infantry and guns.Did the German army give up any ground at Ypres during the withdrawal or did the Hindenberg line not extend that far.

Duncan

[Robert Dunlop]

Duncan, the newly built defensive system that the British called the Hindenburg Line extended only as far north as Arras. It was a huge undertaking and was not completed in time for Operation Alberich, the German withdrawal. Defensive lines around Ypres were not affected by the withdrawal. The various defensive lines and switch systems were constantly being worked on in the Ypres re-entrant (the opposite of a salient, from the German perspective), especially during the build up to Third Ypres. New pillboxes and other concrete fortifications were built but the lines themselves were already in place.

Robert

[phil andrade]

Robert,

Thanks for explaining the meaning of the phrase " re-entrant". This figured prominently in accounts I was reading about the Austrailian attacks at Bullecourt, and I was anxious becuase I didn't know what it meant. Apparently, the fighting raged furiously around the re-entrant there. This was, presumably, in the Hindenburg Line. Am I right in infering that, in this case, a German salient protruded towards the British ?

Phil (PJA)

[bender02]

This map could be useful :

http://www.1914-1918.net/bat17.htm

[SWorrall]

Robert,

Thanks for explaining the meaning of the phrase " re-entrant". This figured prominently in accounts I was reading about the Austrailian attacks at Bullecourt, and I was anxious becuase I didn't know what it meant. Apparently, the fighting raged furiously around the re-entrant there. This was, presumably, in the Hindenburg Line. Am I right in infering that, in this case, a German salient protruded towards the British ?

Phil (PJA)

Phil,

What one side might describe as a salient is viewed from the opposite side as a re-entrant. Two sides of the same coin.

Bullecourt village was initially to be on the British side of the Hindenburg Line (called the Siegfried Stellung by the Germans. 2 sides of the same coin again!)

But the Germans then extended the fortifications to bring the village inside their fortification system, creating the salient (out of the German Lines) / re-entrant (into the British lines) which you can see on trench maps of the period.

The 'tub' shape suggested part of the name of Jonathan Walker's book 'The blood tub' about the battles for Bullecourt in 1917.

Simon.

[phil andrade]

Thank you, Simon.

Phil (PJA)

[RammyLad1]

Thank you for the replies. I read an article on the web called The Battle of 3rd Ypres ( Passchendaele) by Geoffrey Miller. In point 3 , the German defences, he mentions that they ( the German army) carried out a tactical retreat from their front line back to the Passchendaele ridge, this new position is the Hindenburg line.

From reading Roberts informative answer and the link to the map on the LLT site then the article by Mr Miller must be wrong.

Duncan

[Robert Dunlop]

Yes, the article is wrong. It sounds like the author has mistaken the withdrawal from the Somme in early 1917 (code-named Operation Alberich by the Germans) with the forcing back of the German army defending in the Ypres area in late 1917.

Robert

[JimSmithson]

Thank you for the replies. I read an article on the web called The Battle of 3rd Ypres ( Passchendaele) by Geoffrey Miller. In point 3 , the German defences, he mentions that they ( the German army) carried out a tactical retreat from their front line back to the Passchendaele ridge, this new position is the Hindenburg line.

From reading Roberts informative answer and the link to the map on the LLT site then the article by Mr Miller must be wrong.

Duncan

Two things to learn from this Duncan. Firstly that the Web is a source of much rubbish and secondly that anyone, such as Miller, who constantly quotes from Winter, is unlikely to be good with factual content.

Jim

[RammyLad1]

Thanks Jim and Robert.

Lesson learnt, this is good advice.I was under the impression that reserves were sent to the German army at Ypres and assumed that these were as a result of the withdrawal to the Hindenburg line. I think a trip to the library is in order to see what books they have on Passchendaele until the official history set arrives at christmas.

Duncan

[bluebonnet]

The new line extended from Lens-Noyon-Rheims

 

Cunliffe

[AOK4]

Basically, it ran behind almost the complete German line from the North Sea to Pont-à-Mousson. It had different names according to the Army sector: Flandern-Stellung, Wotan-Stellung, Siegfried-Stellung, Hunding-Stellung and Michel-Stellung. Of course the sector in Northern France (named Hindenburg Line by the British) is the best known part.

 

Jan