soldiers

[peppaminty]

Hi. I live in New Zealand and have a descendant who was a CSM Army Gymnastic Staff for the Kings Own Royal Lancashire regiment. He died 1/11/1918 in France according to CWGC and I want to know if I can access his medal index card - if any - online through National Archives or is there an easier way? Also does anyone know anything about the Army Gymnastic Staff and what their role was in WW1 or were they infantrymen who did this as a sideline?

[David B]

Peppaminty,

If you have access to Ancestry you will find the medal index cards available there, otherwise try the UK national archives where I think you have to pay a small fee to download the relevant

information.

[malch]

If you give me his name I will see what i can find out for you. Date of birth, Army number would be useful too, and names of parents can be handy.

[Stebie9173]

I assume that he is George Entwhistle Orrell?

Name: ORRELL, GEORGE ENTWISTLE

Initials: G E

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Company Serjeant Major

Regiment/Service: Army Gymnastics Staff

Age: 29

Date of Death: 01/11/1918

Service No: 1920

Additional information: Husband of F. N. Orrell, Pulley Lodge, Baystan Hill, Shrewsbury.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. F. 13.

Cemetery: TOURGEVILLE MILITARY CEMETERY

The Tourgeville Military Cemetery was used by the 72nd, 73rd and 74th General Hospitals at Trouville near the base area of Le Havre.

The Army Gymnastic Staff were P.T. & B. (Physical Training and Bayonet) instructors who were generally based at the Base Depots in France who helped complete the training of the men who were coming to France after their basic training. Due to the short period of training in the UK that many recruits received, men would always benefit the men in France while waiting for a posting to a front line battalion.

The A.G.S. were not infantrymen at the time, but many would have been in the infantry previously.

Soldiers Died records him as "Died" which normally means that the man Died of illness or accident. This was at the time when the Spanish Flu epidemic was claiming millions of lives across Europe.

Name: George Entwistle Orrell

Birth Place: Bolton

Death Date: 1 Nov 1918

Death Location: France & Flanders

Enlistment Location: Shrewsbury

Rank: A/Sergeant

Regiment: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment)

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Number: 20213

Type of Casualty: Died

Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

Steve.

[peppaminty]

I assume that he is George Entwhistle Orrell?

Name: ORRELL, GEORGE ENTWISTLE

Initials: G E

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Company Serjeant Major

Regiment/Service: Army Gymnastics Staff

Age: 29

Date of Death: 01/11/1918

Service No: 1920

Additional information: Husband of F. N. Orrell, Pulley Lodge, Baystan Hill, Shrewsbury.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. F. 13.

Cemetery: TOURGEVILLE MILITARY CEMETERY

The Tourgeville Military Cemetery was used by the 72nd, 73rd and 74th General Hospitals at Trouville near the base area of Le Havre.

The Army Gymnastic Staff were P.T. & B. (Physical Training and Bayonet) instructors who were generally based at the Base Depots in France who helped complete the training of the men who were coming to France after their basic training. Due to the short period of training in the UK that many recruits received, men would always benefit the men in France while waiting for a posting to a front line battalion.

The A.G.S. were not infantrymen at the time, but many would have been in the infantry previously.

Soldiers Died records him as "Died" which normally means that the man Died of illness or accident. This was at the time when the Spanish Flu epidemic was claiming millions of lives across Europe.

Name: George Entwistle Orrell

Birth Place: Bolton

Death Date: 1 Nov 1918

Death Location: France & Flanders

Enlistment Location: Shrewsbury

Rank: A/Sergeant

Regiment: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment)

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Number: 20213

Type of Casualty: Died

Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

Steve.

Hi Steve

Many thanks for your information. Yes, this is my relative. I would be interested to know if George saw active duty too so I will have to research a bit more. Never occurred to me that he may have died of illness.

Once again, thanks and regards

Susan

[peppaminty]

If you give me his name I will see what i can find out for you. Date of birth, Army number would be useful too, and names of parents can be handy.

Hello Tephrite

Many thanks for your offer of help. Another member has kindly suppled me with more information.

Regards

Peppaminty

Peppaminty,

If you have access to Ancestry you will find the medal index cards available there, otherwise try the UK national archives where I think you have to pay a small fee to download the relevant

information.

Hi David

Thank you, I will try there.

Regards

Peppaminty

[arealdwarf]

Hi Peppaminty,

My grandfather was also a C.S.M. Physical and Bayonet Training Instructor in France, posted to the New Zealand Rifle Brigade. From his diary it appears he spent most of his time training behind the lines. Unfortunately he stopped keeping the diary in the summer of 1917.

According to James Dunbar Campbell's thesis "Physical Culture in the Evolution of the British Army, 1860-1920": "The physical and recreational training systems of the BEF were all put on hold during the crisis occasioned in the spring of 1918 by the German offensives that lasted until early summer. During that time the Staff was forced to abandon the headquarters and school at St. Pol, and relocate several times. The instructors and students at the school even had to form into two fighting companies during the height of the German advance at the end of March."

So it's very likely that C.S.M. Orrell and my grandfather saw action at that time.

Cheers,

Mark