German unit vs 1/6th HLI

[eclipselanders]

Hi,

My GGF died of his wounds on 29th September 1918 near Moeuvres. In fact I think he was injured maybe on the 27th

and died on the 29th. He was in Btl 1/6th Highland Light Infantry (157th Brigade, 52th Lowland Division).

Does someone knows what german unit he was fighting against during those days ?

Help highly appreciated.

Thanks !

Eclipselanders.

[Guest]

From the Fifty Second Lowland Division 1914-1918 by Lt-Col R R Thompson M.C.

" Because of the ceaseless fighting for Moeuvres the Prussian Guardsmen in that area were always on the qui vive; "

Maybe someone has the Diary and can be more specific?

Cheers Mike

[bob lembke]

" Because of the ceaseless fighting for Moeuvres the Prussian Guardsmen in that area were always on the qui vive; "

Cheers Mike

Mike;

Reading Brit and French sources, diaries, etc. I see so many references to "the Prussian Guard" opposing the Allied unit(s) in question, that I think that most must be in error of some sort.

Incidentally, German sources and records for so late in the war are very thin or non-existant, in large part.

(Both my father and grand-father served in the Prussian Guard, the former in the war, the latter for a couple of years about 1890.)

Bob Lembke

[Guest]

Thanks Bob. That's interesting. So you reckon nobody knows for sure, which German units faced British units most anywhere, near the end of the war?

Is it possible that Lt-Col R R Thompson M.C. had access to records/information at the time, that is no longer available, and that he might have been correct?

Cheers Mike

[bob lembke]

Thanks Bob. That's interesting. So you reckon nobody knows for sure, which German units faced British units most anywhere, near the end of the war?

It has to be evaluated on a case by case basis, but generally the info is much thinner, certainly in the last months. The internal German Army materials had generally not worked their way thru the system, and at 11/11/18 the units and men had to race back to Germany or be put in a prison camp. Once back in their home towns most units desolved or were disbanded within, literally, days, and the men demobbed. What happened to the official materials in the pipeline? Most of it probably littered the road-side ditches of northern France.

Even the official histories are thinner and thinner as the war went on. (I have about 110 volumes, with some duplicates.) Perhaps the most important series is Der Weltkrieg 1914 bis 1918, and the two volumes for 1917 and 1918 were published during WW II, the last in 1944 (Not a good year for book publishing in Germany), and I think they were initially published in editions of three copies each. Just the fact that 1914-1916 was covered with 12 regular volumes, plus some supplimental volumes, while 1917-1918 was covered by two, suggests the problem. I have never seen a copy of those two volumes, although I think that they were eventually reprinted, nor have I even heard of a copy for sale. (I have heard of prices in the thousands for a copy, as well.) That series, by the way, would be the series in which you would probably have your answer, if the engagement was not in 1917 or 1918.

I have collected many German Army documents, and even the handwriting in many documents, generally entered by "company sergeant majors" (Feldwebel), often was much worse in the last six months of the war. The whole army was falling apart, its amazing that it lasted that long.

Is it possible that Lt-Col R R Thompson M.C. had access to records/information at the time, that is no longer available, and that he might have been correct?

I have no idea. But he certainly could have been correct, but I am saying that so many Allied officers stated that they were fighting the Prussian Guard that most of them must have been wrong.

There is a book, Schlachten und Gefechten -- -- -- , that might have the answer; there is a copy in the room I am in at this moment, but I have not seen it for 3-4 years, it has submerged under the paper. It would list the German units fighting in the area, but only at a coarse level of detail, like 2-3-4 army corps. So it would tell you that there was no Prussian Guard units in the area, or it might say that there were, but not that they were in a particular small engagement.

Cheers Mike

Bob

[Glenn J]

Mike,

I am fortunate enough to own the rather rare later volumes of Der Weltkrieg that Bob alludes to above. And indeed compared to the earlier volumes are somewhat sketchy! However, Beilage 28 shows the positions down to divisional level of Heeresgruppe Deutscher Kronprinz and the Cambrai sector was held by 1. Garde-Reserve-Division. This in fact confirmed in the regimental history of RIR 64 which along with the 1. and 2. Garde-Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment were the infantry component of the division. They are credited with action at Bourlon, Cambrai on 27-29 September 1918.

Regards

Glenn

[Guest]

Excellent Glenn. Many thanks.

Bob. Your point is taken, and will double check any references to units. I dare say an historian might be tempted to say, his unit was up against the best?

Cheers Mike

[bob lembke]

Mike;

We are indeed fortunate to have Glenn chime in. I have long known that he has an amazing research library, light-years beyond mine, for example, and great research skills. As proof of that, many years ago, he was able to find some information on the career of my grand-father, back in the 1880s, when my grand-father was still an NCO in the Prussian heavy artillery, an absolutely amazing feat, as anyone familiar with the problems inherant in research on the German Imperial armies, and especially on EM/OR, will recognize. Thanks again, Glenn.

So LTC Thompson was correct. But I think that my caution is warranted, about so many claims in war diaries and memoires that their opponents were the Prussian Guard that many had to be in error.

Bob