Super Bee Posted 2 November , 2011 Share Posted 2 November , 2011 I'm trying to find out as many details as possible regarding my Grandfather, Lawrence Heaton during the Great War. I have his military record, which I will post below. Can anyone fill in any details, such as actions that he would have taken part in, please? anything and everything is of interest. The thought behind this is to inform his last remaining child, that didnt even know he served until a short time ago. Thanks in anticipation! Regimental No. 241480 Rank. A/Cpl. Name. Lawrence Heaton Unit. 4th.Battn. Regiment or Corps South Lancs. Regt. Date of disembodiment 18.3.1919 5th South LancsRegiment Embodied service 22.5.15 to 24.8.16 5th South LancsRegiment Appanited (unpaid) Lc Corpl. 25.8.16to 12.5.17 So. Lancs. Regt. 8thPosted Pte 13.5.17 to12.6.17 So. Lancs. Regt. 5thRe-posted Rfn 13.6.17 to25.9.17 So. Lancs. Regt. 5thAppointed (paid) Act L/Cpl 26.9.17 45684 4th Rgt. Appointed (paid)Act/Cpl 6.6.18 Disembodied on demobilisation A/Cpl 18.3.19 Place Shrewsbury. Home 22.5.15to 2.9.15 Embarked for France 3.9.15 to 5.10.16 Home 6.10.16 to24.4.17 Embarked for France 25.4.17 to 12.6.17 Home 13.6.17 Wounded. G.S.W – L. wrist G.S.W – Back and R.leg. Admission form forhospital. Name of hospital: WesternGeneral Hospital (Cardiff?) Admitted: 29.9.19 Discharged: 6.1.17 Shrapnel wound onleft wrist. Treated at Gen. Hosp. (Camiers) I W R the UK. To 3rd WesternGen 2 months then 6wks convalescent. Name of Hospital: Royal Inf.Edinburgh Admitted 13.6.17 Discharged 17.8.17 G.S.W back and rightleg. Treated at Gen Hosp (Rouen) 2 days then to UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 2 November , 2011 Share Posted 2 November , 2011 Try following the LONG LONG TRAIL site, top left of this page, helpful site. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Bee Posted 2 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2011 Try following the LONG LONG TRAIL site, top left of this page, helpful site. Ralph. I have been looking at that, and it has given me a little information, but not the details that I want to know. As a beginner in all this, I need more help than that site can give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 2 November , 2011 Admin Share Posted 2 November , 2011 I have been looking at that, and it has given me a little information, but not the details that I want to know. As a beginner in all this, I need more help than that site can give. With respect not sure what information you want that you can't find on the LLT. It is an excellent resource for a 'beginner'; research can take years including visit to the battlefields and walking the ground. With a little care the LLT is probably the best online resource and we all acknowledge our debt to Chris Baker. If you are a 'busy bee' you could employ a professional researcher who for a relatively small fee, given the work involved prepare a full account for you. However, the service record shows your man enlisted as a volunteer in the Territorial Force of the British Army and was 'embodied' or enlisted on the 22nd May 1915 at St Helens Lancashire. He was given the number 3836. See LLT http://www.1914-1918...recruitment.htm for a description of the TF. He joined the 3 /5th Bn of the South Lancashire Regiment. Typically the 3rd line T/F units were training or reserve units See LLT http://www.1914-1918.../southlancs.htm On recruitment he signed the Imperial Service Obligation which meant he was eligible to serve overseas. See LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/tf.htm After his initial training he was posted to France on the 3/9/1915 to the first line TF Battalion the 1/5th. He was a replacement, as the Bn first went to France in February 1915. He probably replaced casualties sustained by the Battalion at 2nd Ypres. Nevertheless going overseas on this date meant he qualified for the 1914-1915 Star http://www.1914-1918...d/themedals.htm The record of the 1/5th can be followed by following the links on the LLT so initially he went to the 4th Division http://www.1914-1918.net/4div.htm Then to the Ulster Division and finally, to the 55th Division (a first line TF Division) http://www.1914-1918.net/55div.htm While serving in this Division he was wounded. The final link details the 55th Division on the Somme and shows they were engaged at the Battle of Flers Courcelette on the 21st September when Heaton was first wounded. Although to be honest anywhere on the Somme that summer was pretty dangerous. Flers was noteworthy not only for the deployment of TF Bns but also for the use of tanks. He received a 'blighty' one and was sent home arriving on the 5th October. see LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/wounded.htm et seq After a spell on convalescent leave on 25th April 1917 he was sent to France and probably ended up at one of the IBD (most likely Etaples) see LLT http://www.1914-1918...basedepots.html From the IBD he was posted to the 8th (Service) Bn (Richard Holmes in 'Tommy' describes how the IBD was a melting pot and arbitrary postings caused much resentment). It is probable that Heaton was one of those so affected and was posted to the 8th Bn who were in 25th Division and at the time preparing for a major offensive in the Ypres Salient see see LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/25div.htm He was wounded the second time on the 8th June 1917, the second day of the battle of Messines Ridge. Once again he was 'lucky' and evacuated back to the UK his 'reposting' to the 5th Reserve Bn was probably an administrative posting while he recovered from his wounds. He remained in the UK on reserve duties until the Bn was absorbed into that 4th (Reserve) Bn see LLT http://www.1914-1918.../southlancs.htm The LLT notes they went to Dublin in April 1918 Heaton probably went with them (Dublin was a 'home' posting.) The record is a bit sketchy here but as no 'to' date is shown it's likely he transferred on 27th September 1917. By this time he was renumbered along with his comrades in the TF See LLT http://www.1914-1918...renumbering.htm He is still shown in the records as serving with the 4th Division when he was 'Disembodied'. He received a pension of 8 shillings and threepence to be reviewed after a year. Further Reading (not the LLT!!!) http://www.southlanc...info/index.html still under construction but would be able to point you towards the war diaries - unusually I see the extract from the diary for the 5th Bn includes the names of the Other Ranks (ORs) (unfortunately no recent updates) This page shows the KLR relieved the 5th Bn in the front line at Flers on the night of the 23rd (by which time Heaton had been evacuated). http://www.liverpool...1916.09.25.html There are many accounts of the Battle of the Somme e.g. Malcolm Brown 'Imperial War Museum Book of the Somme is readily available but makes no specific mention of the 55th Division. G. Sheffield The Somme is also a good source A trip to your local library might help to put the war diary in context - but then again the LLT provides a sound introduction see http://www.1914-1918.net/bat15.htm The South Lancashire page on the LLT has a link to Charles Messenger's Call to Arms which in turn has links to other volumes about the soldiers' lives and trench warfare. A google search on Flers Courcellette or Messines Ridge (with the usual health warning) might prove productive but as you don't say what "details" you want... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 2 November , 2011 Share Posted 2 November , 2011 Do you know the exact dates of his wounds? [edit] I've looked it up - it was 21/09/16 and 08/06/17.[/edit] That means his first wound was when the battalion was employed at night digging jumping-off trenches and strengthening the position in preparation for the next attack on the north side of Flers, on the Somme. His second wound was received whilst they were holding the line in the Railway Wood Sector, near Ypres. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Bee Posted 3 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2011 First, I'd like to thank those that have replied. Its certainly given me plenty to work on! As regards details, I'd like to find as much as I can about his time in the Army. Not only the period that he was in France, but also things such as where he did his basic training, which port did he travel to France from, and arrive at, and so on. Hopefully, the links given will provide me with these answers. Two more questions. First, are there any books that have been written that would help me get a clearer picture of things? Factual ones, that is, not novels. Secondly, it was mentioned that there are historians that can help for a small fee. Does anyone have any suggestions as to names? I will admit though, I would much prefer to sponsor this site, LLT, or even both in some way for the help obtained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 November , 2011 Admin Share Posted 3 November , 2011 Hi again Bee Sorry for my rather waspish response to your original post but most of us would sell our granny for 38 pages of undamaged service record - I'm not sure you realise how lucky you are! The Army form B103 in his records shows that he embarked from Southampton on 3 September 1915 and disembarked at Rouen where there was an Infantry Base Depot. After his first wound he returned to the UK on HS (Hospital Ship) Brighton(?) When he returned to the front he again embarked from Southampton and back to Rouen. Wounded again this time he returned to England on the HS 'Aberdonian' (?) The same form indicates he was also a 'bomber' and latterly a Lewis Gunner. This suggests a very tough and courageous infantry soldier. As for where he did his basic training the most likely was at the Depot at Warrington. It was no doubt the experience at the Front that shaped him, he spent very little time in the UK prior to joining the BEF and his garrison duty in Dublin must have seemed very mundane after his experience in France. Closer study of the documents confirms he was in Dublin on 21.6.1918 when he was medically examined and classified as B2. He was still in Dublin on 21/1/19 when he appeared before a medical board prior to discharge, with incidentally an unblemished conduct sheet. He is shown as 5' 3" tall. This may be why he joined the TF - 5' 3" was the minimum height for the Regular and New Army Bns but the TF had a more 'relaxed' approach to many aspects of recruitment such as age and height. Equally, it may have just been a matter of convenience, he lived in St Helens and would most likely have gone to the Drill Hall in the town to enlist. There are some things we can never know, was he a reluctant volunteer, or was he desperate to join the fray? We can only guess at motivation. As for books on a soldier's life I mentioned two in my previous post (Richard Holmes Tommy or Charles Messenger A Call to Arms - you could also try John Keegan's The Face of Battle - if you intend to buy any books can I suggest you use the link at the top of the page to Amazon as this helps to fund the forum - the link opens in the 'war' section so you can have a browse around Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted 8 November , 2011 Share Posted 8 November , 2011 In case you don't have this; the 1918 Absent Voters List for St. Helens shows he was a L/Cpl and living at 65 Atherton Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Bee Posted 8 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2011 Hi again Bee Sorry for my rather waspish response to your original post but most of us would sell our granny for 38 pages of undamaged service record - I'm not sure you realise how lucky you are! Hi Ken, sorry for not replying sooner. I didnt think that your response was in the least waspish. You mentioned a 38 page undamaged service record. Do you know where I can get a copy of that? All that I have managed to obtain so far is a three page record, most of which I copied out above. DaveR: 65 Atherton Street was where his parents lived. Although not familiar with the geography of St. Helens, I would presume that is in Prescot. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 8 November , 2011 Admin Share Posted 8 November , 2011 You mentioned a 38 page undamaged service record. Do you know where I can get a copy of that? All that I have managed to obtain so far is a three page record, most of which I copied out above. I assumed you got the record from Ancestry http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=lawrence&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=heaton&gsln_x=XO&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=yi4&cp=11&pcat=39&h=930256&db=BritishArmyService&indiv=1 which says there are 38 images (I haven't counted them and some are blank) if you're not a subscriber I believe they are making the records available later this week for free. If you go backwards there are a couple more in usual Ancestry style but they don't add a great deal. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted 8 November , 2011 Share Posted 8 November , 2011 Prescot is not part of St Helens, it is a smaller place a few miles away. Atherton St is near the centre of St Helens, 5 mins walk from the old South Lancs TF Drill Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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