Andrew Marshall Posted 25 March , 2003 Share Posted 25 March , 2003 I have two men listed on the memorial in Gravesend cemetery who are not buried there, they are: 8815 Pte. Luke. Ashmore 3rd Reserve Bn. Irish Guards 03.09.15 327454 AMII A. G. Squibbs RAF 26.04.20 The memorial states that they are both buried in Joyce Green Cemetery, this has been abandonded and surrounded by a housing estate, there are no graves left or any markers. It is also past Dartford, Kent which is about seven miles from the cemetery here in Gravesend, the bit I don't understand is that there are cemeteries in Dartford, why are they commemorated here in Gravesend? I think I may need to ask the CWGC and see if there is an answer for this, also to ask where are the bodies because when I visited this site it was completly overgrown and the only way I was able to identify where the cemetery was located was because there were Yew trees and some shallow hollows approximately grave size in a row within the overgrown area. I also managed to find a couple of pieces of headstone type material and finally one with an inscription on to a nurse, this confirmed that the area I was in was indeed the cemetery. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 25 March , 2003 Share Posted 25 March , 2003 The war graves in Joyce Green Cemetery are now Alternatively Commemorated by CWGC in Gravesend Cemetery. The bodies are still at Joyce Green but you will find a screen wall bearing these names in Gravesend Cemetery. This is CWGC's method of commemoration when a cemetery is deemed unmaintainable for any number of reasons. The place of commemoration is counted as the place of burial for statistical purposes and in their database which now lists them as being at Gravesend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Marshall Posted 25 March , 2003 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2003 Terry Thank you for that information, but are you saying that this land will now just be left to grow back into a wild state, with the possibilities that someone may dig up a body because there is no way to tell this place was a cemetery unless you go looking as I did. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 25 March , 2003 Share Posted 25 March , 2003 Sadly, cemeteries becomes unmaintainable for many reasons. The owners give up trying to maintain the site due to cost, vandalism etc or they sell the site for development (yes, it does happen). There are examples of sites being built upon although in these cases all bodies are usually exhumed and buried elsewhere. CWGC has no control over such events but usually make serious representations to the owners. If the situation is unavoidable, they make arrangements to commemorate nearby - in this case at Gravesend. There are three war graves involved here - the third being Stoker 1st Class W.COOMBER SS/110732 RN, HMS 'Ness' Died 30.08.15. There are other casualties on the screen wall from other abandoned cemeteries. CWGC use one site for this process and not always the nearest one to a particular cemetery. By coincidence, I obtained the details of these three burials for my own research at about 4.00pm this afternoon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Marshall Posted 25 March , 2003 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2003 Terry Yes, you are correct I forgot that Coomber was listed, he is on another photograph as he is on a different part of the screen wall. How is that for a coincidence! Unbelievable....if you want I do have photo's of these commemorations and can get you copies. It does seem tragic that the site will be left, lets just hope that nature will take over and that the pressure for more housing will not drive someone to build over those buried in Joyce Green Cemetery. One last question, if all the markers have been removed how will they know where the burials are? Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 25 March , 2003 Share Posted 25 March , 2003 The answer to your last point is that they will rely on the burial records of the cemetery owner. These will usually give a grave number matched with a plan (but not always!). You must remember that in many old cemeteries not all graves were marked anyway - usually because the next-of-kin could not afford it. As far as CWGC is concerned these three are now in Gravesend Cemetery for all their purposes. They may well have had private memorials which were not the responsibility of CWGC anyway. On the bright side, most local authority run cemeteries which are abandoned are left as nature reserves or as leisure spaces. There are exceptions - remember the Westminster Cemetery sell-off scandal in London? Many of the non-conformist chapelyards are now abandoned or sold off and these are occasionaly redeveloped. See the Campaigners site at www.cwgc.co.uk (not the CWGC site) under the item "Abandoned War Grave Desecrated" Thanks for your offer of sending photos. I would be happy to see then if you have them electronically and can email them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Marshall Posted 28 March , 2003 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2003 Terry Thank you for your help once again, I shall try to sort out the photo's on a digital format and send them over to you, probably after the weekend. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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