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2nd middlesex


steve.m.

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Hello Pals my great grandfather private James Hawkins 7760 was in the 2nd Middlesex Regiment. His records don't servive but I was told he took part on the first day battle of the Somme 1st July 1916. He some how managed to survive and carried on serving with them until being gassed I am told sometime later (probably later that year). He survived and I am told again he was down graded to the Labour Corps somtime in 1917/18.

Therefore could I please ask if any pal would know how many times and where the 2nd Middlesex were involved in a gas attack around this period. Maybe its possible it was an attack by us and the gas blew back on them I know that was possible. I look forward to hopefully your replys, many thanks before.

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Hi,

I am afraid having checked the war diary there are no specific mentions of casualties sustained by gas attacks, however if your ancestor was in the battle of 1st July he could consider himself very lucky to have survived as from a strength of 650 men who went over the top only one Officer and 50 OR's answered roll call the next day!

I am not sure if a Battalion history survives anywhere which may have more detail about the use of gas.

REgards

Nick

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Hi Steve it may not have been a major all out gas attack one single gas shell or gas remaining in a dug out or shell hole would be enough.His labour corps number was 398106 he also received a silver war badge ref as follows

LC/3485 Badge11100/1/B.19.2.19.So that would probably confirm him being no longer fit to continue in active service. Some one will be able to look up the SWB roll and get you moe detail on that.Also his labour corps number may be a clue to when he transfered to them.john

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Hello Pals, thanks for your replies. I was hoping someone could tell by the battalion diaries, (long Shot) never mind thanks for taking the time. Yes your right, he was very lucky to survive 1st july his commander whose name escapes me actualy committed suicide being so depressed at what happened. I have also been to France and stood where there (2nd middlesex) frontline trench was and visited the graves were his mates are buried at Ovillers which I must say was quite emotional. In the past I used to talk to my Grandmother (his daughter) and have also spoken to his son thay told me he was a quite a tough man, but my Grandmother said he was never the same after the war suffering with bronchitis also having nightmares. He was discharged in 1919 due to wounds I think whilst in the labour corps. He passed away when I was 2, shame it would have been great to speak to him.

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Hi,

Don't despair too early to give up yet, if you know where the family lived during the war you could try the local newspapers also Middlesex County archives as county archives often hold very interesting information. I understand the Middlesex Regt records are held at National Army Museum who have a contact us facility so you could try them. The war diary is available to download at NA so be worth spending £3.50 for it.

Another thought is to get hold of the other Battalions war diaries within 2nd M'sex Brigade (23rd) and check their diaries for the times they were in the line with 2nd M'sex and you may strike lucky.

Sadly the Labour Corp records are virtually non existent so bit of dead end there.

If you need further help please PM me and will see what can be done.

Regards

Nick

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Hello Nick thanks for that information fantastic, I will follow them all up. Your quite right I shouldn't give up yet. Might take a while with work and that I'll tell all if I find anything. Its good to hear others ideas and knowledge like Mr Munster saying about single gas shells being in an attack etc. I really am no expert but I had a go at reseaching my wifes Great Grandfather whose records survived. Its amazing the amount you have to do to peice it all together, I felt like a police detective. There were certain things I didn't understand, but I think I came to the right conclusion in the end. Took me six months though.

Steve.

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Dont forget the silver war badge steve there is info on the roll for the badge such as date of and reason for discharge. Best of luck.john

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Hello Munster thanks for that, I've got his medal roll for silver war badge. It says he was discharged 24-1-19,then there is the next one down it goes para.of K.R.Gara392(xui)k.R.I don't understand what that means, whether that discribes the reason he was discharged. Hears hoping you or someone will know!

Steve.

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This is from the long long trail steve the link to the main page is at the top of the page here on this site my link will bring you to swb page and a key to the reasons for discharge.In this case no longer physicaly fit for war service.john

http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/swb.htm

sorry steve i gave you the wrong link.john

Edited by munster
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Hello Nick thanks for that information fantastic, I will follow them all up. Your quite right I shouldn't give up yet. Might take a while with work and that I'll tell all if I find anything. Its good to hear others ideas and knowledge like Mr Munster saying about single gas shells being in an attack etc. I really am no expert but I had a go at reseaching my wifes Great Grandfather whose records survived. Its amazing the amount you have to do to peice it all together, I felt like a police detective. There were certain things I didn't understand, but I think I came to the right conclusion in the end. Took me six months though.

Steve.

Hi Steve,

It is indeed like being a police detective! I think you will find this is what the majority of members on this site find so fascinating, no two men's stories are the same so it all boils down to hunting out as many facts as you can and then you will be surprised how quickly you can build a picture of a mans service.

Also, what is so good about sharing information with others is the fact sometimes another pair of eyes see a little clue we all miss.

Keep digging my friend, they did!!

Kind Regards

Nick

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Hi Steve,

The CO of the 2nd Middlesex on 1st July 1916 was Lt Col Sandys DSO. My Great Uncle was a casualty on that day and died of his wounds 12th July. The War Diary for that day is on the third link.

Here are some other links.

 

My great uncle.

 

Page 2, post 37 is the 2nd Middlesex War Diary for 1st July

 

 

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  • 2 years later...

An old thread I know, but out of interest my Grandfather also served in the 2/Middx & was on the First day of the Somme. I never asked him the questions I would ask him now of course! He won the Military Medal in Oct 1916,he was 2104 L/Cpl Alfred Gower. I wonder whether they knew each other?

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