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Remembered Today:

Ypres 1914


chris basey
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Unusual to see a photo of so much of Ypres still standing! Possibly because it was taken in 1914?

post-4-1090412372.jpg

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And for those who wonder where this is.

Rue de Verger = Boomgaardstraat (Orchard Street).

This leads to the Boterstraat (Rue de Beurre, Butter street), of which one and a half buildings can be seen at the back.

Building at the back, to the right (step-gabled), is the backside of what was (is) het Vleeshuis, pre-war the Municipal Museum.

Also behind it, the tower of St. Martin's Cathedral, already partly destroyed (pre-war no spire yet).

Unfortunately not able to guess what time the photo was taken. If the Cloth Hall had been on the photo, more to the right, behind the Vleeshuis, it would have been possible, based on the damage (it was shelled and on fire on 22 Nov. 1914.)

Maybe someone else can, comparing to other postcards ?

Aurel

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To Chris and Aurel,

The photo shown on that postcard was taken by Antony (see the bottom of that scan). This photograph used a special sign to date his photos. It can help to date that postcard.

Beneath you will find a scan of a postcard. The photo shows the same area, the text on the backside is written on aug. 4th, 1915,

Gilbert Deraedt <_<

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Gilbert,

Yes, I have seen your postcard before.

Not sure what time your postcard photo dates from exactly. I would say : April 1915 the time of the gas attack of 22 April (when the town was shelled), or shortly after. (This is consistent with the text "August 1915)

As to Chris' photo : one could wonder : when is a postcard likely to be given the caption "Campagne de 1914" ? End of 1914, or maybe the beginning of 1915 ? (It wouldn't make sense if this was the devastation of April 1915.) So probably Chris' postcard shows the result of the shelling of the First Battle of Ypres (Nov 1914.)

Aurel

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And the numbers (Visé de Paris) could be the dates the photos were taken ?

Rue de Verger (Boomgaardstraat) Before : 7 May 1914 / After : 27 June 1915

Cathedral : Before : 11 May 1914 / After 5 Febr. 1915

Aurel

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Guest dinkidi
Also behind it, the tower of St. Martin's Cathedral, already partly destroyed (pre-war no spire yet).

G'day Aurel

Weren't the buildings restored to their pre-war dimensions?

Thanks

Pat

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The story of the photographers Maurice en Robert Anthony is very important to the town of Ypres and impossible to tell in a few words.

My mail is to warn people not to use photographs or postcards to publish or possibly put them on the net because there is still a copyright on ALL photo's. People organising exhibitions have been confronted with this and some had to pay fines for violating this copyright. I can assure you, certainly here in Belgium, this is not a idle warning.

Jacky

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What Jacky wrote is certainly true. At least for publications in books. I know that some very interesting publications about the history of Ypres do not contain Anthony photos, for that reason. And the same for some exhibitions in the past.

I have had a similar negative experience some 10 years ago. A photo of the burning Cloth Hall (22 Nov 1914). The publisher had assured me : after so many years there can be no risk, with a picture postcard. But the reaction of the heirs was immediate and 'ruthless'. (A number of copies of the book + an amount of money.)

I do not know about posting photos with copyright on the Internet though. But better safe than sorry ?

Maybe someone has more information on the legal aspect of this practice ? (Could one be sued for this ?)

Aurel

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Aurel

Yes - you can be sued.

You have to remember that there are several different types of Intellectual Property Rights involved. In this case, both copyright and reproduction rights come into play. I am talking about UK law here.

You can have a case where the copyright has expired but the reproduction rights still exist. (maybe this was so in your case).

There have been several threads on this subject and a search should find most of them.

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due to the unsure copyright question I have removed my post sorry but I thiught after 90 years the copyright would have expired.

Best regards

N.S.Regt.

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(...) In this case, both copyright and reproduction rights come into play. I am talking about UK law here.

You can have a case where the copyright has expired but the reproduction rights still exist. (maybe this was so in your case). (...)

Thanks, Terry.

I didn't know about that difference between copyright and reproduction right.

Aurel

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Weren't the buildings restored to their pre-war dimensions?

Pat,

Yes, they were. But there were some exceptions. E.g. the large "Kasselrij building" (north side of the Market Place, the 3rd building right where the Diksmuidestraat begins) was not rebuilt, but a new building was constructed, in a totally different style.

The Hospital on the east side of the Market Place was not rebuilt either. That's where now the Court is.

And as to St. Martin's Cathedral ... It was rebuilt the way it had been pre-war. Except for a few "details". And one is that a spire was added. IIRC this spire was added because there had already been plans for a spire shortly before the war, plans that had to be abaondoned when the war broke out.

Aurel

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Yes - you can be sued.

Copyright and the internet is a huge grey area. Things like location of the webserver, whether the image is stored on that server or just linked to through the page coding are just a couple of areas of contention and basically impossible to police.

In my view ( and I have been using a form of the t'interweb for about 20 years) copyright and the internet do not mix, it is completely against the whole ethos of why the internet was developed in the first place i.e. the exchange of knowledge, information and ideas, freely given. Eventually, I suppose, it was inevitable that money would rear its ugly head.

Ironically, the man who developed the internet as we know it today, the first functional web-browser (NEXUS), the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) and Hypertext Markup Language (HTML), Sir Tim Berners Lee, contributed his work for nothing. Just think if he had decided to copyright everything he did we may still be sat at home writing letters and waiting for the postman to further our research.

Andy

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To Aurel,

The text on the backside of the discussed postcard is written in French. (French Army ? ).

It could help to date that postcard.

Gilbert Deraedt

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