Moonraker Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 How did members of firing squads feel about their task? I guess that to some extent it depended on the crime that merited execution and the manner in which the guilty party had been regarded by his comrades. In cases of apparent cowardice was there much in the way of sympathy on the lines of "there but for the grace of God go I"? And was it usually the case that members of a firing party were drawn from the man's own unit? Would they have been from within his own company or from his battalion? Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 I don't recall reading many first-hand accounts. Those who did this business may have had many reasons for not describing their feelings, or even admitting to being involved. I would expect all shades of feeling among different squad members, from 'bad egg getting just deserts' all the way to 'establishment-sponsored murder of the innocent' - presumably squad members were under orders? Or were they volunteers? Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 Please can I recommended "Blindfold and Alone" by Cathryn Corns and John Hughes- Wilson Isbn 0-304-36696-x. It's a factual and straightforward account of British Military Executions in the Great War, without a theoretical axe to grind, that allows one to arrive at a personal conclusion to some of the more subjective emotions this issue normally posits. Desertion is by far the most frequent offence that saw the capital punishment implemented. Instances of Cowardice amounted to 18 cases, by my accounting, a staggeringly small amount when the numbers of men at arms are considered. FGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 Of course, this has been discussed at length on the forum. If I remember correctly, it was felt that an officer or senior NCO would quietly tap reliable soldiers for the duty. Although I chatted to many ex soldiers and they voiced a variety of opinions on capital punishment, I never spoke to one who claimed to have been on a firing squad. With only 300 or so executions, the chances of any one soldier being on one were very small. In theory, a man would be ordered to be one of the firing party so there would be no question of guilt beyond the post war guilt which seems to have affected some soldiers at having taken a human life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 I researched this area quite heavily when we were given Michael Morpurgo's book Private Peaceful as an assignment at uni. I used the following website: http://www.shotatdawn.info/ It gives some harrowing information on individual cases. It also gives statistics not just on British but other nationalities including the Germans - the French for example, executed almost twice as many as the British and the German figures are among the lowest. If I recall one of the cases, a multiple execution, some Frenchmen whose job was to remove the bodies, spoke of the firing squads. It was also alleged, I believe that the firing squads were given alchohol beforehand. I won't say anymore about the site as you may want to research it and post. Marjorie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 The "sound-scape" offered in the cells of the condemned at the Poperinge Town Hall (Belgium) state that only one rifle was loaded with live ammunition. This would suggest that those on the firing squad would be unaware of who fired the "killing shot". I suppose that this gave the men of the firing squad the belief that one of the other members shot the live round and that they had fired a blank. I agree with Truthergw that the men in the firing squad would have been ordered to do so. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 The "sound-scape" offered in the cells of the condemned at the Poperinge Town Hall (Belgium) state that only one rifle was loaded with live ammunition. This would suggest that those on the firing squad would be unaware of who fired the "killing shot". I suppose that this gave the men of the firing squad the belief that one of the other members shot the live round and that they had fired a blank. I thought the mythology was that the rifles were loaded for the firing party and one rifle was loaded with a blank. Loading only one rifle with live ammunition would have been a recipe for a botched execution. In previous discussions, I seem to remember it being mentioned that experienced soldiers would in any case know whether they had fired a live round or a blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59165 Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 The "sound-scape" offered in the cells of the condemned at the Poperinge Town Hall (Belgium) state that only one rifle was loaded with live ammunition. This would suggest that those on the firing squad would be unaware of who fired the "killing shot". Regards, Peter You know when you fire a live round & when it's a blank. The kick & sound would tell anyone if it was a blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 21 October , 2011 Share Posted 21 October , 2011 Here's a vivid description by a British soldier who was assigned to a firing squad: http://tinyurl.com/42y928l He claims to have fired at the wall, because he didn't want the blood of a fellow British soldier on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 22 October , 2011 Share Posted 22 October , 2011 Anyone who has ever fired live rounds and blanks in any decent calibre will immediately be aware of what they had just discharged. Absolute nonsense this idea that men would not know what they had fired. Anyway, there is a monastry nearby to where I live which was used as a WW1 execution site for I believe one execution only. The bullet strikes on the wall are all over the place and that from approx 30 feet or so. At this range if all aimed at a white patch over the mans heart then all rounds in reality should cover an area the size of the patch. The all over the place bullet impact strikes would suggest to me that many aimed off or were simply to drunk or in dispair to shoot straight. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 22 October , 2011 Share Posted 22 October , 2011 I knew a vet who claimed he was one of Rawlinson's drivers. He claimed that he had a very early trip to make one morning, and on arrival was told in no uncertain terms to stay with the car, and not wander off and find a brew somewhere. Naturally my man didn't do as he was ordered and in hunting down his brew discovered that an execution was taking place. As I remember the tale he arrived just as the deed was done, and he then hurried back to the car, but he didn't fool Rawlinson who challenged him with "Did you see that, Brown" confirming he had, Rawlinson then said "Very bad business, very bad". Reporting what he had seen to the other drivers he was told Rawlinson tried to be present at executions he had signed as often as possible. My man was of the opinion he wanted to remind himself of the cost of his order. That's the story, if it has holes fair enough, I was recording him because he was one of the IOW's last Boer War vets, and had just had his medals replaced from the ones taken by the Germens when he went into the bag in 1918. I wasn't that interested in WW1 then as every old man was a veteran of that war. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 22 October , 2011 Share Posted 22 October , 2011 How did members of firing squads feel about their task? Have a look at this thread about a participant deeply troubled by his involvement even seventy years after the event when he was on his death bed: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=130538&st=0&p=1240303&hl=bolton&fromsearch=1entry1240303 Full credit to forum member Bill Miles (Old Chap) for bringing the story into the public arena. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 22 October , 2011 Share Posted 22 October , 2011 I believe that the men came from the offender's battalion, but not necessarily from his own company. They were not volunteers. In some cases there are records (usiually by officers or sergeants commanding the squads) that the unit's best shots were to be chosen; in others, that soldiers with dubious conduct records shold be chosen. There is at least one report of the men pleading with the sergeant not to make them into murderers. What does often appear is an exhortation to make it quick and certain, as a final mercy to the condemned man. Blindfold and Alone is a good source for the study of military executions. Shot at Dawn by Julian Putkowski and Julian Sykes is useful but definitely has an axe to grind; For the Sake of Example by Anthony Babington and The Thin Yellow Line by William Moore are also worth a read. I doubt that anyone involved in a firing squad could fail to be affected by it, and "not in a good way", to use a modern phrase. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim P Posted 23 October , 2011 Share Posted 23 October , 2011 I can only imagine what it must be to a) face a firing squad, although it happens to this day and be a firer it is hard enough to squeeze the trigger on an enemy in most circumstances, let alone a hapless comrade, whatever his crime. I can only imagine what it must be to a) face a firing squad, although it happens to this day and be a firer it is hard enough to squeeze the trigger on an enemy in most circumstances, let alone a hapless comrade, whatever his crime. that stupid face is a result of an attempt to do bracket B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 23 October , 2011 Share Posted 23 October , 2011 A most interesting discussion between forum pals. As a point of historical interest, and to avoid perpetuating an inaccuracy, the phrase used in the Great War was always "Firing Party" rather than "Firing Squad". Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 25 October , 2011 Share Posted 25 October , 2011 Re my earlier post from the shotatdawn (S.A.D) website triple execution is at: http://www.shotatdawn.info/page14.html On the S.A.D. site the terms firing squad and firing party seem to be used interchangeably but I did note that an eye witness account of a WW1 military prisoner (as in the link above) uses the term firing parties and is making the vocabulary choice that was indeed used at that time. I can only think that the term firing squad is a more modern or present day terminology, as a group of 12 soldiers would constitute a squad and the definition might be the same if not historically inaccurate? Or, was the term firing squad used at that time for something else? In which case a clear distinction between the two would be essential to avoid confusion. I am intrigued. Marjorie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 25 October , 2011 Share Posted 25 October , 2011 I believe that the men came from the offender's battalion, but not necessarily from his own company. This doesn't always seem to be the case. By coincidence, last night I was reading The Doings of the Fifteenth Infantry Brigade August 1914 to March 1915 by the then Brigade commander Edward, Lord Gleichen. He notes the following for 8 September 1914... "Next morning we had, before starting, the unpleasant duty to perform of detailing a firing-party to execute a deserter. I forget what regiment he belonged to (not in our brigade)*, but he had had rotten luck from his point of view. He had cleared out and managed to get hold of some civilian clothes, and, having lost himself, had asked the way of a gamekeeper he met. The gamekeeper happened to be an Englishman, and what was more, an old soldier, and he promptly gave him up to the authorities as a deserter." * The Shot At Dawn site reveals he was from the 1st Bn Royal West Kents, so from a different Brigade of the same Division as the firing party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 25 October , 2011 Share Posted 25 October , 2011 This was, I think, the very first execution of the war. The BEF were then all Regulars, or recalled reservists, and therefore somewhat of a close-kit family who had largely trained together, so detailing a firing party from a different brigade of the same division would keep it fairly close, but not too close, to "home". Later in the war I believe that it was common, but by no means universal, to select from the condemned man's own battalion. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 27 October , 2011 Share Posted 27 October , 2011 2nd Lt Bill FISK of the Kings Liverpool Regiment refused to command the firing party that executed Gunner Frank WILLS (strongly suspected to really be the Australian Samuel MELLOR) in May 1919. Apparantly it nearly destroyed his military career. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 27 October , 2011 Share Posted 27 October , 2011 Tim Did 2/Lt Fisk give a reason? Gunner Wills was convicted of murder, which carried a mandatory death sentence under both military law and the ordinary criminal law anyway. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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