2nd Battle Of Ypres

[Conor Dodd]

Could anybody give me the name of a good bok about the second battle of Ypres with details about all the small battles and maps etc.

Conor

[Paul Reed]

There is a book by two Canadians (?Steel and Williams) entitled 'Gas!' which is about the CEF in Second Ypres, with a little on the others. I think Ray Westlake might still sell it.

There is a 'Battleground Europe' about St Julien - I forget the author.

Aside from that Vol I of the 1915 Offical History covers the battle in depth, and there is a good map volume. Repints from Naval & Military, no doubt.

That's it, I'm afraid - a neglected battle!

[Jacky Platteeuw]

I very much agree with Paul that the 2nd battle of Ypres is a 'forgotten batlle'. Nevertheless it is in my opinion historically one of the most important ones in many ways. It has been a narrow escape for the Allies. Don't forgett that it was the only time that the German Army managed to cross the Ypres-Yser Canal with a considerable number of men. If they had succeeded the way was open to the Frenchs harbors and the Belgian positions behind the river Yser would have become untenable.

Also the losses on the Allies side have been, considering all facts, horrendous. I.e. the 2nd Bn King's Own Royal Lancaster Rgt. lost 312 killed during the Battle of Frezenberg on the 8th of May 1915. Only 9 soldiers have a known grave the rest is on the Menin Gate. The British alone lost in that battle around 19.000 killed of which most have no know grave and that is without the Canadians who also had enormous losses i.e. The Princess Pat's lost on the same day almost 300 men killed again 95% is commemorated on the Menin Gate.

This battle saw the first gas attack, the first ever massive use of high explosive shells and saw in his aftermath the use of total new weapons like the flamethrower.

Don't feel obliged Paul

[jhill]

Due to the prominent part Canadians played in this battle there seems to have been a lot of Canadian books about it over the years. The first was "Canada in Flanders" by Sir Max Aitken. This was in 1916 before Aitken had bought his peerage and become Lord Beaverbrook (I hope this is not too indelicate a way of putting it!).

A more recent offering is "Welcome to Flanders Fields" by Daniel G. Dancocks. No maps though!

[AOK4]

Hello,

I can also recommend you to read the German regimental histories, some of them are highly detailed.

This is something which can be said in general to English authors and researchers: DON'T FORGET THE GERMAN SOURCES! The absurdities I read in English books because no one cares to research the german sides are sometimes enormous and very annoying.

I for one always research both allied and german sides if I do research, something that is absolutely essential for a historian, never believe only one side. Besides of that many German histories have a tremendous amount of detail (much more than the British histories, which are in most cases very 'sec').

Greetings,

Jan

[Guest Gil]

Jan,

I do agree with your point that German sources have been very much neglected in the Anglo Saxon historical approach of the Great War. I would even dare to go one further. Most of the English (and especially American) publications leave the novice reader with the impression that the British Army fought a solo war whereas the brunt of the effort - be it in material, manpower and length of frontline - for the most part of the war fell on French shoulders. In no way do I wish to diminish in any way the sacrifices and tremendous effort of the Commonwealth and US troops in this conflict. My living in Flanders between the poignant Commonwealth war cemeteries being a constant guarantee to that. What I do miss is the bigger picture.

A question Jan, is there any German official data accessible on the net. If so it would be very interesting if you could put the URLs on this forum.

[Paul Reed]

Hello,

I can also recommend you to read the German regimental histories, some of them are highly detailed.

This is something which can be said in general to English authors and researchers: DON'T FORGET THE GERMAN SOURCES! The absurdities I read in English books because no one cares to research the german sides are sometimes enormous and very annoying.

I for one always research both allied and german sides if I do research, something that is absolutely essential for a historian, never believe only one side. Besides of that many German histories have a tremendous amount of detail (much more than the British histories, which are in most cases very 'sec').

Greetings,

Jan

Good point Jan and I would agree, but you have to remember the constraints of commercial publishing; with a Battleground Europe publication, as an author, you are limited to 144 printed pages which is around 35,000 words. This barely gives you enough space for the British side, let along anything else! When I did my recent book on Combles I wanted to include details of the French operations alongside the British in the capture of the village in September 1916; there are good French sources. But the wealth of material meant another book in its own right, and I was limited to less than 1000 words describing what the French did.

I regularly check some details against German sources that I have, but time and finance (and a lack of language ability) means that most authors never have the chance. This is not laziness on their part; the remuneration from the publisher for this type of work is so small that it barely covers the cost of research in UK archives, let alone overseas.

I would also say that when I did some research in the Stuttgart Archives on the Beaumont Hamel sector, I found some of this material at odds with what I knew was right; so one side certainly doesn't have a monopoly over the other when it comes to telling the 'truth' (whatever that is) about the events of WW1.

[Aurel Sercu]

Hi Conor,

Coming back to your original question ("A good book about the Second Battle of Ypres ?").

Not a book, but a lot of valuable information (I think some 80 pages by now) on the following website (by Joanna Legg) :

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/index.htm

Click on "The Second Battle of Ypres"

Unfortunately not complete yet, but a lot (and detailed) information already about :

- the Prelude (Jan - April 1915)

- The Battle of Graventafel Ridge (22-23 April 1915).

I hope the rest (St Julien, Frezenberg, etc.) will follow in the near future.

Aurel Sercu

Ypres

[Conor Dodd]

Many thanks for all your help.

Conor

[laughton]

There are a number of references to this in the collector's edition for Canada in "Official Hstory of the Canadian Army: Canadian Expeditionary Force 1914 - 1918" by Nicholson. This is an out of print book here in Canada but if you need something specific, let me know before I send it back (Nov. 15th).

[Frank_East]

Conor

At unit level, "Surrender be Damned" by Les Hughes and John Dixon gives a good account of the engagement now know as the Battle of Frezenberg 8-13 May 1915 when the 1st Battalion Monmouthshire Regiment suffered heavy losses as the Salient was reduced under the German thrust and the line maintained.Just one engagement in a number which made up the 2nd Battle of Ypres.

There must be other unit accounts particularly Canadian for the period from 22 April 1915 to 25th May 1915 as the struggle for Ypres continued.

Regarding an overall view seek out the official report "Official History of the War. Military Operations. France and Belguim 1915". Originally published in 1927 but now republished. There is even quite a good account of the fate of the 1st Monmouths.

Regards

Frank East

[Conor Dodd]

Many Thanks again to everbody for all the help I better route out my library card !!!!!!!!

Conor

[andigger]

Since this is a timely thread I thought I would bring it back up.

Andy