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RaySearching

His Majestys Defence Force

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RaySearching

evening forum pals

I came across the folowing headstone with the inscription ( accidentally killed serving in his Majestys defence force June 3rd 1921 )

exactly what was his Majestys Defence Force ? a Branch of the armed forces perhaps

I cannot find his name on Cwgc although his death just falls within the qualifying period for inclusion ( if serving with his majestys Defence force Qualifies)

if he qualifies, and his death occured whilst serving , then he may be a possible non commemorated

6220299315_75dcd18b32_b.jpg

Joseph Elcoate can be found on the 1911 Census aged 15 residing with his widowed mother and siblings at 41 Wellington street Middlesbrough

any replys or info appreciated

Regards Ray

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kenf48

I think you will find the correct name is 'The Royal Defence Corps' formed in 1917 from old and less fit men, not intended for overseas service and often compared to the LDV (Home Guard) in WW2. A quick google search on the above name could tell you more and refers to previous forum threads.

As for being a non-comm I don't know - but they were undoubtedly part of the British Army some TF Bns, for example were assimilated into the Corps on it's formation.

Ken

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RaySearching

Thanks Ken

I have just google'd Royal Defence Force as you have suggested in your reply to this post

and found there is a mass of information on old threads on this forum ,On the R.D.F

a reserch subject all on its own I presume

regarding being a Non-Com I am sure the In from the Cold Team will advise

Thanks for the reply

regards Ray

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RaySearching

Hi all Forum pals

I have carried out a bit more research into J Elcoate

his full name was Joseph .A .Elcoate Born Middlesbrough 1895

He married Rosamond Widdowfield in 1919 in Middlesbrough

his death record is Joseph A Elcoate June Qrt at Northallerton (as Headstone)

the following MIC must be his as I cannot find any other records for a Joseph A Elcoate

6223136987_704aaae848_z.jpg

so it appears he served abroad and survived the war only to be accidentally Killed serving with the Royal Defence Force at Northallerton in 1921

regards Ray

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centurion

Just a thought, he'd be at the head of the queue for discharge. Could he have been discharged and then a little later signed up for the Royal Defence Force? I don't know how rejoining the army after discharge at wars end would effect his CWGC status.

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truthergw

What did The Royal Defence Corps do in 1921 that would get him killed?

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RaySearching

Hi Truthergw

The Headstone States Accidentally Killed

as per photo

regards Ray

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chrisharley9

Ray

you could order the DC which may confirm that he was in service at the time of his death; drop me an e mail if you want to discuss this further

Chris

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RaySearching

Eight years later

Thanks to the Western Front Association saving the pension records 

The cause of Elcoates death is revealed

 

Elcoate.JPG.34f8f4110b665020238607bb00804a4a.JPG

 

Gun shot wound to the head, accidental

 

Ray

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RaySearching
53 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

 

RM

Thanks for the link  to the  Defence Force

the forum always gets there in the end

 

I consider Elcoate not to be a casualty of the Great War 

 

Regards Ray

 

 

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David_Underdown

If he was serving in uniform he meets the criteria for CWGC, regardless of anyone else's opinion.

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PaulC78

Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette 04 June 1921 (FindMyPast)

 

elcoate.JPG.40ba10a9301c44c3b6df0edbc4d0036c.JPG

 

John not Joseph and 28 not 26, but otherwise fits.

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RaySearching
1 hour ago, PaulC78 said:

Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette 04 June 1921 (FindMyPast)

 

Nice one Paul

 

much appreciated

 

Regards Ray 

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David_Underdown

By complete coincidence (I was looking for someting entirely different) I just came across this in the Ringing World of 10 August 1928, p504

image.png.81d22b413c0d861ea51b8dbae1588f6b.png

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RaySearching

David 

It never ceases to surprise me what members of this forum find 

Thanks for posting the cutting

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Why not submit his case and see what the CWGC say.

At worst it will be 'No'.

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RaySearching
16 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Why not submit his case and see what the CWGC say.

 

Background

The Defence Force was created as a means for the British Government to overcome an industrial crisis in the coal mining industry and associated railways. The crisis stemmed from the return after the Great War of control of the mining industry to private coal owners. In an increasingly desperate economic slump through 1920, the owners began to propose and impose cuts to miner’s wages by proportions varying from 10% to as much as 49%. The “Triple Alliance” of coal mining unions called for a strike. The crisis threatened to bring the British economy to a standstill. It should also be recognised that the British Government was most concerned to allay the spread of what it saw as “Bolshevism”. The British Government, led at the time by David Lloyd George, prepared to mobilise armed forces to intervene.

The above is from the LONG LONG TRAIL  (as link posted by Rolt 968 post 10)

 

Ex service men were invited to enlist for a 90 day Emergency Service to assist the civil powers in maintaining order, Elcoate a discharged serviceman being one of the volunteers to enlist

 

Whilst Elcoate may be entitled to be commemorated on the CWGC register, his death at home in 1921 cannot be attributed to or aggravated by his Great War service,  Therefore Elcoate was not a casualty of the Great War  although his death in 1921 may have been a consequence of  it.

 

As the circumstances surrounding Elcoate’s death have now been established

I have drawn a line in the sand , My interest is only in casualties of the Great War and for that reason and that reason only, I wont be perusing the matter any further

 

Regards Ray

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Open Bolt

Interesting finds, but who, now, can identify Cpl Drinkwater?...

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