Left handed soldiers?

[DCLI]

Playing with my 'new' Lee Enfield today, I realised that it cannot be used by a left-handed person.

Does anyone know what happened to left-handed soldiers during the war - were they 'retrained', court martialled for insolence or incompetence or ...

I am sure someone knows something about these people, there must have been quite of few between 1914 and 1918.

regards

Anthony

[DirtyDick]

About 10% of the population are 'sinister' left-handers; however, in the nineteenth century naturally left-handed children were often forced - literally, having their left hands bound behind their backs - to adopt the right hand for work, so the numbers thus handicapped by a right-hand-biased rifle could well have been fewer during the War.

Are you sure that it is not possible to remove and then reset/replace the bolt on the other side of the rifle, for I am sure I have seen one being fired by an obvious left-hander? (Forgive me if this is obviously not the case; I haven't handled a Lee Enfield, or even seen one in the flesh, for years and am in any case not much of a gun buff.)

Be interesting to know if the Army forbade soldiers to adopt their most comfortable hand when actually firing the rifle.

Richard

[bkristof]

my grandfather was left handed, and he had to learn everything with his right hand, from school days on.

Also in the army.

No special gear for left hand soldiers, no they had to act "right"

[wellsms]

DCLI,

Rifles are always handed. The issue with shooting a right handed rifle off the left shoulder is the operation of the bolt (unwieldy and inefficient, but by no means impossible) and the hot cartidge that tends to fly into your eye.

Shooting straight is not an issue as you shut one eye to aim.

Being a right hander who shoots off his left shoulder with a shotgun, as I have a left master eye, I always used to shoot rifles off the right shoulder. I've never really had issues reloading off either shoulder, using the right hand for both, where a right handed shotgun user loads with the left....... unless particularly well off, when his loader does it for him!

Doesn't answer your questions I'm afraid, but my guess is the Army wouldn't want inefficient soldiers.

cheers

Mike

[Captain Dave]

There was no way to easily convert a .303 to left handed. The bolt and the breech would have to be totally recast. If the bolt was reversed for a left handed operator, the rifle would eject rounds into the mans face when firing on rapid. Trying to support a small proportion of left handed weapons would be an armourers nightmare.

I just had a little play with my SMLE, and didnt like the idea of reaching over and working the bolt with my left hand (and I'm left handed) Quite an ungainly act.

As mentioned before, most of us poor Leftys were forced to do it all right handed. My Grandfather was left handed and during WW2 he had to adapt to firing the .303 right handed. He said there were some people who tried to operate it in the oposite fashion, but it was simply easier to learn to shoot right handed. The result was he could fire a rifle both left and right handed and continued to shoot with a rifle club up until the 80's.

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

I used to re-enact the American Civil War and fired an 1853 .577 calibre Enfield Rifled Musket. I am left handed but as weapons are designed for right handed people and all tactics for movement and firing in the 19th Century is also designed for right handed folk I simply learned to be right handed.

Actually it is not difficult. Everything we do from a young age is right handed and most left handed people can easily adapt. Scissors are right handed, most school desks are as well as many items used daily. It is either adapt or perish.

Ralph

[N.S.Regt.]

DCLI

The only military issue gun that I am aware of that cocks from the left side is the ww2 German G or K-43. the only reason for this is the scope mount is on the right side and would be in the way of the bolt handle. It is a treat to shoot left handed and fired mine a couple of times. It is one of a few non ww1 items in my collection.

Best regards

N.S.Regt.

[Michael]

I shoot off the left shoulder and have had no trouble shooting a Lee Enfield or an SLR. The only problem with firing the Lee Enfield was that I kept having to shift my position to cock it. This obviously isn't a problem with the SLR.

The SA80 was being phased in as I left the forces and I wasn't able to use it on my left shoulder because the ejection port is right next to your face.

Mick

[Dave_59]

I used a right handed shotgun yesterday despite being a 'lefty'....on my left shoulder. Had a little trouble opening the barrel and supporting it at the same time.

Dave

[healdav]

This blatant discrimination was and possibly still is, appalling.

My entire family (with the exception of my mother) are left handers and have we suffered!

My father was forced (by the tying your hand method) to write right handed and now writes illegibly with both hands.

I was forced to do special exercises to get me to do things properly (unsuccessful). The only thing I can do is to use a knofe and fork like right handers.

At school it was a nightmare in pripary, being utterly unable to use scissors (they jam on your thumb and the blades are the wrong way around), unable to write like the others and so it went on.

As someone it's a case of adapt (in reality, fudge) or go under.

I can imagine that in the army in WW1 days anyone who couldn't use a rifle right handed would get short shrift. No doubt they did like all left handers and did badly right handed whatever it was (right handed potato peelers have just come to mind).

It has just occured to me that my grandfather, although never called up from the TA was a sniper (why he was never called up is a mystery) and shot for the regiment (Devons, I think) and he was left handed. How he did it I can't imagine.

In fact, even as a very old man he would win every prize in sight at fun fairs as he preferred to just sight along the barrel and blast away, not bothering with sights. My mother recounts that the fair ground owners always smiled induglently as this old man appeared and paid his sixpence and then stood appalled as he gradually cleaned out the stand!

Any way, it's all discrimination. Do you think we could sue for compensation? My life has been blighted by not being able to cut up pieces of paper to make pictures.

[DCLI]

Thanks for the replies - very interesting.

Surely firing an SLR left-handed would make it very difficult to work the safety catch - no thumb?

Also interesting is that healdav 'finally' managed to eat right handed. I am right handed but I have always eaten left handed (fork in right hand) my father used to regard it as being akward and made me eat alone in the kitchen until I sorted it out - I never did, and I wear my watch on the right wrist.

Regards

Anthony

[Marco]

In most cases where a 'left' SMLE is shown in pictures or even film it's a simple case of the film being reversed (is that the right word??). In some instances this was even done on purpose like in the brilliant BBC's 1960's series THE GREAT WAR. They did this because for the purpose of the scene the soldiers attacked the 'wrong' way!

Regards,

Marco

[Tim Birch]

Are rifles manufactured these days specifically for left handed people?

Tim

[bkristof]

Are rifles manufactured these days specifically for left handed people?

Tim

Yes,

FN makes their rifles (semi automats) like that that they can be changed to left handed one.

BUT !!! As said before. Then the empty cardridges jump out in the face of the sodier next to him... Not pleasant at all

[doogal]

Are rifles manufactured these days specifically for left handed people?

Tim

I've seen target rifles specifically for left handed people.

Being left handed, my shooting days were short lived - as has already been said, because the bolt action is set up for right handed people, every time you reload, you not only get a cartridge in the eye, but you have to zero in all over again.

The best way round it is just get on with it and get used to using the weapon in a right handed manner.

rgds

doogal

[Muerrisch]

One would have to be very maladroit to be left-handed and yet unable to master the SMLE right handed: working the bolt, using a charger, squeezing the trigger are very simple functions for the "wrong" hand.

[Tom Morgan]

A friend of mine tells me that when he was doing National Service in the 1950s, using Rifle No. 4, he had to do all the drill right-handed, but was allowed to shoot left-handed. Of course he had to reach over the rifle to work the bolt.

Tom

[AndyHollinger]

I am and have been lefthanded ... the M14 and M16 both ejected spent cartidges into my face ... I simply buttoned the shirt all the way up ... it's no big deal ... on bolt action rifles one simply rolls the rifle toward your hand and you can do it simply ... I've own several and they all work well ... I have a left handed Browning which is a treat ... but certainly not worth the price once paid ...

The real answer is you managed ... you dealt with it ... from Machine Guns to Rifles, heck the world is made for right handers ... but being left handed you're usually smart enough to figure out how it works ...

[healdav]

I think it depends on just how left handed you are.

For instance, I find it difficult even to imagine throwing a ball with my right hand, let alone doing it (and when I do do it, there is absolutely no control at all. It can go left, right, straight ahead or over my shoulder and with no force at all). I find using a spanner or screw driver with my right hand very difficult indeed. Likewise I can't use my chain saw with it to the right, despite that fact that the safety guard is only fitted to work to the left i.e. to stop the chain flying left.

My imagination does begin to balk at the thought of squeezing a trigger with my right hand, but I might be able to do it. The real trouble is that everything would be the wrong way round so I would I am certain, find aiming very difficult indeed. I would always be trying to close my left eye (I can't close my right and not left, but I can close left and not right).

I know othe rleft handers who have no problem with any of these things. Whether the army could/ would take the degree of left handedness into consideration is a moot point (especially in those days).

[PhilB]

Tom, when I was in the army in the 50s all left handers fired the No 4 rifle in the manner you describe - reaching over and operating the bolt with their left hand. Slightly awkward, but no big problem. Phil B

[widwick]

This will show my age.

I'm left handed and fired the No 4 left handed, using my left hand to work the bolt. We (the sinister ones) were permitted to fire the SLR left handed at Sandhurst and proved left handers were as good as the rest by winning the Intake shooting competition in both years. (I seem to remember this was frowned upon when using the SMG - same problem as current issue weapon - close proximity of face to ejecting spent cases.

Needless to say - no latitude was shown (or mercy given) when it came to drill. Surprised someone hasn't taken the MoD to court for discrimination. Mmmm...

Tony

[Barry Q]

Surely firing an SLR left-handed would make it very difficult to work the safety catch - no thumb?

Not really, I'm left handed and I had an SLR while I was in the Army during the late 70's and early 80's. I used my thumb to disengage the safety and my knuckle on my index finger to re-engage it. I got many a funny look from assorted drill instructors who believed I hadn't engaged the safety catch.

I've dry fired my de-act SMLE left handed and now I've got a knack for doing it. OK, I have to drop the stock from the shoulder each time, but as the stock drops, the bolt is pulled back. When the bolt is pushed forward again, the inertia forces the butt to rise again. This method only really works in the standing position.

Even more fun is bench resting the SMLE to fire. Your left hand hand is on the trigger, while the right hand cycles the action. I can crack off 'rounds' like there's no tomorrow. However, this only works if you've got small hands. Otherwise the bolt will rip the skin off the back of your hand.

I admit that being left handed has it's problems. I use a ruler upside down. I can't use a knife and fork properly (I use them right handed). Cutting things with scissors is a pain, but there are advantages even if it's quicker gear changes in a car.

[philsr]

I shot the Lee Enfield left handed for years.

I am right handed, but am left eyed, my left eye is very dominant.

It was either left handed or wear an eye patch.

OK on the range, but not clever when the targets are shooting back.

Also I could not manage better than ten rounds a minute shooting rapid practices left handed.

I also had no problems with the SLR.

Hold the fore end with the right hand, cock it with the left hand and operate the safety catch with the left thumb and forefinger.

Just bring the thumb round to the left side of the rifle, operate the catch and wrap it back around the pistol grip.

A RAF Regiment sergeant who was running my RCO course who was also left handed had been loading and cocking right handed and then changing hands when he came to shoot, very cumbersome.

Phil

[clive_hughes]

Gents,

I've noticed nobody has mentioned the "neutral" Martini-action rifles?

I'm left handed, footed, and left-eye dominant. In the Air Cadets ca.1970 my squadron spent lots of time weekly on the .22 practice range, and to my delight I was allowed to use an older but perfectly good Martini-action .22. Ended up captaining the team & even briefly sneaked into my University .22 lower team, because even with other actions I learned to cope reaching over to load and work the bolt without disturbing my firing position much.

Firing Lee-Enfields wasn't so stylish or accurate, but could do it. SLR when in the TAVR likewise - nobody corrected me on the ranges. But the LMG (latter-day bren gun) had sights on the right side only and couldn't be fired from the left shoulder. Having to fire this meant the target was the safest place to be...

Likewise I seem to remember being told told to fire the Sterling sub-machine-gun in single-shot mode and right handed only, because of a theoretical danger that the wretched thing would go onto automatic and spit a stream of flame into one's face via the cartridge exit !??! As it was supposed to be my personal weapon, this didn't endear it to me much - sort of a glorified pistol with limited stopping-power, which I could only fire awkwardly and with blurry vision, and at such close range that I'd have been better off throwing the thing at any enemy.

I eat and use scissors right-handedly, but have a tough time if called on to sample the dessert with both spoon and fork simultaneously. Haven't shot with anything for many years, worse luck; but two years ago had a go at the school fete's clay pigeon and behold, they produced a left-sighted shotgun for me...got 8 out of 10! Aaah, the satisfaction!

LST_164

[J T Gray]

I'm a bit of an amateur here, having only ever fired one shot with a "real" rifle, but using an air rifle the shooting bit is surprisingly easy to do left-handed (I'm dexter). Yes, extra thought is called for, but it strikes me as being a bit like driving on the other side of the road - only closing the spare eye isn't a help there!.

I cannot, however, comment on cycling the action as I've never had to it.

Adrian